POINTS EVENT #4 Pics

RamVennam · **Joined:** Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:31 pm **Posts:** 132

Heat 3:
https://plus.google.com/photos/10818747 ... 5p7m24yxVQ

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Mon May 06, 2013 11:38 am

Fail on Mustang picture above. Wrong side of the car, so we can't see all the gas spilling out of it (onto the left-side exhaust pipe). In the future, if a worker station radios in a about a car dumping gas on the track, maybe we could keep from sending that car back out?

I'm talking about fuel *poring* out, not just a little dribble.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Mon May 06, 2013 11:52 am

So with the Mustang, after talking to him he found that his gas cap retainer strap was wedged under the rim of the cap (ie between the gasket and the end of the filler neck. So he 'fixed' that. Apparently that's where the fuel was coming from. I had him rev the engine up at idle and no fuel came out of the gas door (nor the exhaust). After one more run, under load (ie coming up the hill) it was clear it wasn't even the fuel filler door and it was coming straight from the exhaust. After that run I stopped him and there was fuel all over the back of the rear bumper (a swipe of the finger and sniff confirmed despite it being hard to see visually due to the black metallic paint). I told him to stop running at that point.

But Scott is right, either the grid worker or myself should have been notified the first time and the car should have been held from running until it was checked out.

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Mon May 06, 2013 12:10 pm

JamesShort wrote:

So with the Mustang, after talking to him he found that his gas cap retainer strap was wedged under the rim of the cap (ie between the gasket and the end of the filler neck. So he 'fixed' that. Apparently that's where the fuel was coming from. I had him rev the engine up at idle and no fuel came out of the gas door (nor the exhaust). After one more run, under load (ie coming up the hill) it was clear it wasn't even the fuel filler door and it was coming straight from the exhaust. After that run I stopped him and there was fuel all over the back of the rear bumper (a swipe of the finger and sniff confirmed despite it being hard to see visually due to the black metallic paint). I told him to stop running at that point.

But Scott is right, either the grid worker or myself should have been notified the first time and the car should have been held from running until it was checked out.

In hindsight, the course workers (me in particular - since I first reported the issue) should have thrown a red flag on the mustang, with the run resulting in a DNF. That's the safe and proper thing to do, and makes it clear to the car owner that the problem needs to be addressed. If he honestly didn't know about the leak, he ought to be thanking us for the observation.

We've thrown the red flag on people for spraying intercoolers at the start line - all for a puddle of hazardous dihydrogen oxide.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Mon May 06, 2013 12:13 pm

Scott Johnson wrote:

JamesShort wrote:

So with the Mustang, after talking to him he found that his gas cap retainer strap was wedged under the rim of the cap (ie between the gasket and the end of the filler neck. So he 'fixed' that. Apparently that's where the fuel was coming from. I had him rev the engine up at idle and no fuel came out of the gas door (nor the exhaust). After one more run, under load (ie coming up the hill) it was clear it wasn't even the fuel filler door and it was coming straight from the exhaust. After that run I stopped him and there was fuel all over the back of the rear bumper (a swipe of the finger and sniff confirmed despite it being hard to see visually due to the black metallic paint). I told him to stop running at that point.

But Scott is right, either the grid worker or myself should have been notified the first time and the car should have been held from running until it was checked out.

In hindsight, the course workers (me in particular - since I first reported the issue) should have thrown a red flag on the mustang, with the run resulting in a DNF. That's the safe and proper thing to do, and makes it clear to the car owner that the problem needs to be addressed. If he honestly didn't know about the leak, he ought to be thanking us for the observation.

Yep, this ideally would have been the better plan, I'll mention at the next driver's meeting

Quote:

We've thrown the red flag on people for spraying intercoolers at the start line - all for a puddle of hazardous dihydrogen oxide.

Yeah that stuff is crazy corrosive to tires.

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Mon May 06, 2013 12:50 pm

Serious mechanical issues should require a safety re-inspection by the Chief of Tech or another officer prior to being let back on course. And if it doesn't pass, we don't allow them back on course. It sucks to be the bad guy, but it is definitely in everyone's best interest not to allow a potentially dangerous car on course.

Neal Harrington · **Joined:** Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:29 pm **Posts:** 106

Just to cover the progression of events, I was the starter when the Mustang was running. Timing requested that he not be allowed to run after the first report. I turned him away once, then allowed him to start later because I observed El Presidente talking to him as he pulled up in line. For future reference, this sort of thing should have been handled at grid, but there was no radio contact with the grid person due to radio problems.

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Mon May 06, 2013 2:38 pm

Neal Harrington wrote:

Just to cover the progression of events, I was the starter when the Mustang was running. Timing requested that he not be allowed to run after the first report. I turned him away once, then allowed him to start later because I observed El Presidente talking to him as he pulled up in line. For future reference, this sort of thing should have been handled at grid, but there was no radio contact with the grid person due to radio problems.

I can vouch for this progression of events as I was in the bus trying repeatedly/desperately to contact grid, to no avail. The best we could do with the info radio'd in from course workers was to ask Neal (starter) to inform the driver of the problem and not allow him to run. When the driver returned to the start line claiming it was fixed, he was given the benefit of doubt, only to find out on his next lap it really wasn't fixed. Then, finally, when someone (James S) came close enough to the bus to hear us yelling for his attention, we informed him of the situation, and he took what seemed to be appropriate action (as he described earlier in this thread), which, unfortunately, ended up resulting in another lap of fuel spillage. For sure, we gave the driver too much rope in this situation, but that was not the result of blatant inattention or inaction, other than the grid radio issue.

I also agree with Scott's and Zak's suggestions. Thankfully, we can chalk this up as a learning experience.

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Mon May 06, 2013 2:43 pm

To be clear, I wasn't berating anyone's performance yesterday. Given the circumstances, I think everyone's actions were quite reasonable.

Jordan Normark · **Posted:** Mon May 06, 2013 2:47 pm

Neal Harrington wrote:

Just to cover the progression of events, I was the starter when the Mustang was running. Timing requested that he not be allowed to run after the first report. I turned him away once, then allowed him to start later because I observed El Presidente talking to him as he pulled up in line. For future reference, this sort of thing should have been handled at grid, but there was no radio contact with the grid person due to radio problems.

I worked grid for the 2nd heat, and I suspect the radio problem in grid during the 3rd heat was due to not having a 3rd hand. Honestly, we were moving cars quickly enough by then that I really didn't have a spare hand to hold the radio and I put it in my pocket. I guess I lack the requisite coordination to hold a radio in a position I can hear it, a clip board, and write with a pen at the same time. :oops:

I like working grid since it requires some thought, so don't get me wrong, but in hind sight, a second person to man the radio and field problems like the one with the Mustang would have been helpful.

RamVennam · **Joined:** Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:31 pm **Posts:** 132

Agree with Jordan. I worked grid on the first heat. I was sending cars less than every 10 seconds...I absolutely couldn't pay any attention to the radio, which was in my pocket. Maybe we should look into attaching the radio to the clip board?

JamesMilko · **Posted:** Mon May 06, 2013 3:02 pm

If we want grid to be able to monitor the radio they need to get a headset. I've done grid may times and there isn't really any good way to keep the radio in a position that you can hear it all the time.

Carlton Whitehead · **Posted:** Mon May 06, 2013 3:06 pm

JamesShort wrote:

After one more run, under load (ie coming up the hill) it was clear it wasn't even the fuel filler door and it was coming straight from the exhaust

I'm not sure if it was taken before or after the driver's first attempt at a fix, but Mike got a very clear photo of gas blasting out of the gap around the fuel filler door. I'll post it here when I have a chance.

Lee Williams · **Joined:** Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:22 pm **Posts:** 75

Radio headsets would probably be helpful in a busy grid and would also be very helpful for doing raw times (at least for me).

Thanks to Ram for the awesome photos. Do springs loose their spring after 24 years? It looks like I could use some that are stiffer.

Jordan Normark · **Posted:** Mon May 06, 2013 8:43 pm

From the standpoint of having a hands free way to hear the radio, I agree a headset would be helpful in grid. For me, workload was a large part of the issue. Keeping the flow of cars going and keeping track of runs requires a certain level of concentration. Listening to the radio on top of that is a distraction especially when 95% of the radio chatter is cone calls and things that really don't pertain to grid. A headset may be more cumbersome in this situation since I am usually talking to drivers, checking for tech stickers, verifying runs, making sure 2 driver cars have the correct numbers displayed etc. Workload.

I think a second grid worker would have helped in my situation. The second grid workers duties could include listening to the radio for pertinent communication and fielding the subject cars/drivers.

*On a personal note, It's a pleasure to be involved in a discussion with a group of people interested in finding solutions to weakness instead of pointing fingers.

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