results from 10/21/2012...

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:55 am

Les Davis wrote:

DickRasmussen wrote:

VERY expensive street tires (my Michelin XWX's were $150 each in 1976 in size 195/70 X 14).

Holy crap, that as an expensive tire in 1976, relatively makes my current $325 each tires seem cheap. Couldn't you buy a whole brand new car for $3000 in 1976? I seem to remember my parents buying a brand new Corolla in '76 and it costing around $3000.

My Z was about $4K in 1974 as I recall. I paid mid $3K range for my 69 Mustang GT through the PX in Vietnam.

R tires were CHEAP in those days when they showed up compared to many of the high performance tires.

My slicks are a real bargain compared to many other alternatives . . . less than 1K per set. Of course, no street driving (except on my short dead end neighborhood street.) :lol:

FYI part of why the XWX's worked on my Z was the carcass was STIFF . . . especially with 50 psi. A friend cut a sidewall on the street once and there was steel cord in the sidewall. The steering response compared to other tires was simply amazing. Plus, once the tires were no longer legal for SCCA due to tread depth there was enough rubber that they could go a huge number of runs before tread steel showed on the outside edge even with a camber challenged car like my Z.

I used to pick up used practice tires from a tire store in Palo Alto, CA that catered to Porsches, Mercedes, etc. The tires were not good for serious use since they weren't worn to my ideal camber pattern (i.e. the tires wouldn't stand straight up due to angled tread wear) but they were still pretty fast. Old rubber was much less of an issue then than now for grip . . . at least in CA.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:01 am

Les Davis wrote:

DickRasmussen wrote:

VERY expensive street tires (my Michelin XWX's were $150 each in 1976 in size 195/70 X 14).

Holy crap, that as an expensive tire in 1976,

$639 in 2012 dollars :shock:

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:32 pm

MarcusMcRae wrote:

Why not? Tire class conflict?

RT* classes are based only on stock car classes, hence the Pax 'reducer' of 2.5%. TIR class is more adaptable with higher attendance because you can have more base classes participate besides just Stock.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:39 pm

Michelin still apparently makes (in limited range of sizes) the XWX and the XAS for collectors: http://www.michelin-passion.com/passion/front/templates/affich.jsp?codeRubrique=41&lang=EN

MartynWheeler · **Joined:** Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:30 pm **Posts:** 303

I ran an autocross at the State Fairgrounds on XWX once. Well, it was XWX on the front and full-on General snow tyres on the rear... my first TransAm was in the shop (it did that a lot) and I wanted FS points, so I ran the '69 four-door Falcon. As I recall I spun the rears a lot (302 V8) and corded the fronts... and making the full stop in the stop box was a serious issue with those four-wheel drum brakes.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:36 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

Les Davis wrote:

DickRasmussen wrote:

VERY expensive street tires (my Michelin XWX's were $150 each in 1976 in size 195/70 X 14).

Holy crap, that as an expensive tire in 1976,

$639 in 2012 dollars :shock:

Amazingly, take a look at what new XWX tires cost today: http://www.jegs.com/i/Coker+Tire/257/555773/10002/-1

$635.

noahfleming · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:21 pm

JamesShort wrote:

DickRasmussen wrote:

Sure looks like I might have had a better time if I could find ST tires that fit and have run in the first or second heat. :lol:

Anybody make narrow 20 and 22.5 inch diameter 140 TW tires that work on a 5.5 X 13 rim?

Maybe I better check the vintage racing tires . . . :wink:

Impressive results by you guys. I realize that there was lots of gravel in heat two since even from corner one I could see it on the other side of the course during heat one. Maybe my rain tires would have done better . . . until the tread grooves filled up with gravel. :lol:

In the 2nd heat if you went an inch off the racing line, you started to understeer through the marbled like you hit ice. But on line the grip was good.

That's what happened on my last run :cry:

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

JamesShort wrote:

In the 2nd heat if you went an inch off the racing line, you started to understeer through the marbled like you hit ice. But on line the grip was good.

If there was a racing line by heat 3, it was much narrower than my car.

I really liked the other lot we ran in July. It was a sealed surface, but pretty clean, and got stickier as the day went on. The surface Sunday negated the value of the larger lot. It was also very expensive to me. Before the event, I looked at my A6s and figured I needed to flip them after the event. They suffered a LOT of wear Sunday -- across the entire contact patch, but not much on the outside shoulders, since it was impossible to generate any significant cornering loads. I might get one more event out of them, but no more need to flip them.

At least I didn't have Robert Plank's problem. After the event he borrowed my sheet metal shears to cut away the long strips of tread hanging off of his rear tires so that they wouldn't be flapping about during his drive home.

I guess we all have autocross days when nothing seems to go right, and I shouldn't let it bug me so much. I want to thank the officers for lining up the new site, and the event chairs, officers and everybody involved for putting on a good event. But I hope that when we go back to Fayetteville next year that we use the other lot!

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:28 am

Arthur McDonald wrote:

But I hope that when we go back to Fayetteville next year that we use the other lot!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he said. :thumbsup:

JamesShort · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:07 am

I foresee us using both lots. For the lot this weekend, we can have mandatory sweep breaks every 30 minutes or so in the high grit areas. Or maybe someone with a back back leaf blower can let us borrow it for course setup day

.

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:25 am

I have to agree w/ Art here. Once I got home, I was amazed at how much damage was on the rs-3s. Tons of small cuts on the treads and nothing I've ever seen before. That embedded rock in the asphalt was a bit tough on the tires.

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

RodneyWright wrote:

I have to agree w/ Art here. Once I got home, I was amazed at how much damage was on the rs-3s. Tons of small cuts on the treads and nothing I've ever seen before. That embedded rock in the asphalt was a bit tough on the tires.

One advantage to your car breaking halfway through the first run, saves on the tires wear I suppose.

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:05 am

Les Davis wrote:

One advantage to your car breaking halfway through the first run, saves on the tires wear I suppose.

No! Hope it wasn't anything serious Les. (???)

I sort of like the other lot more, at least in dry conditions as the Jimmy V lot (East Lot) was really slick in the wet. The East Lot was definitely easier on tires, better for spectating, and the rolling off camber stuff actually made it really fun to drive. If the dang lightpoles weren't in the West Lot it would be a different ballgame. But, then again you can't rely on ifs in the this hobby of course...

Judi told me that y'all (ECs & course designers) had to clean up tons of metal. Not cool when we're buying $250+ tires. :shock:

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

I will try and do the Jimmy V in the east lot next year, but I worry about pissing the owners off, as the East lot is obviously their more visible lot, and they were a bit pissed at some of the tire marks we left there from the Jimmy V (particularly at the start, which was right over top of some of their freshly painted lines). We could always do one of those painful, awful, miserable starts like day 2 of NCAC to avoid that I suppose.

Your input is duly noted though, and we will do what we can to accomodate.

JohnByers · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:16 pm

BriceJohnson wrote:

We could always do one of those painful, awful, miserable starts like day 2 of NCAC to avoid that I suppose.

Don't hate cause you couldn't get it perfectly! Lots of starts at higher levels were like that last year, I like to think of it as ways to practice and get better at any of the AX scenarios that could be thrown my way

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