I know you hate PAX, but...

JamesShort · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:31 pm

Like I said, the whole STR class is underprepped (some more than others) but even the best prepped cars (Zach's or Jeremy's) are far from National prep. And by far, I mean $10k or more (full header back (titanium exhaust), ECU tuning, light weight 17x9 wheels (not TRMs), camber joints, wicked alignment, 25lb seats, bushings etc).

I think you SSM and CSP whiny babies just need to drive faster

.

jeremy gast · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:37 pm

Steven please dont think like that. My car is underprepped for national events but the experience is worth it, if you love to autox. I have learned so much just going to the few bigger events that I have been to.

Steven Carter wrote:

Les Davis wrote:

As for national level competition, I've thought about it several times, but years ago I had a co-driver that ended up being a national champion who consistently whipped my ass by about 1.5 seconds and when I tried running the Z06 in SS one certain local guy whipped me most of the time and he never came close to a national championship when he made the trip, so I've just never felt the need to drive halfway across the country to find out what I already know.

I understand this sentiment well. I have given myself 3-5 years of car prep and driving to see where I can go. If I can't place well against local competition, or beat some of the good Triad/CCR drivers at NCAC then going to National Tour events is somewhat pointless. It may be a fun experience, but I'd rather not pay money to show up in the SCCA archives as a DFL.

jeremy gast · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:38 pm

kinda hard to listen to that when you left csp last year after chasing me!!!!!!! :stick:

JamesShort wrote:

I think you SSM and CSP whiny babies just need to drive faster

.

JamesMilko · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:59 pm

JamesShort wrote:

Like I said, the whole STR class is underprepped (some more than others) but even the best prepped cars (Zach's or Jeremy's) are far from National prep. And by far, I mean $10k or more (full header back (titanium exhaust), ECU tuning, light weight 17x9 wheels (not TRMs), camber joints, wicked alignment, 25lb seats, bushings etc).

I think you SSM and CSP whiny babies just need to drive faster

.

BRB spending 20k on dyno tuning.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:06 pm

jeremy gast wrote:

kinda hard to listen to that when you left csp last year after chasing me!!!!!!! :stick:

JamesShort wrote:

I think you SSM and CSP whiny babies just need to drive faster

.

You mean when I was in a C stock car with an intake and crappy Tokicos with soft springs?

jeremy gast · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:43 pm

if i am not mistaken you guys changed the suspension and were on wider wheels, no cs legal. and trust me I know I need to drive faster..

JamesShort wrote:

jeremy gast wrote:

kinda hard to listen to that when you left csp last year after chasing me!!!!!!! :stick:

JamesShort wrote:

I think you SSM and CSP whiny babies just need to drive faster

.

You mean when I was in a C stock car with an intake and crappy Tokicos with soft springs?

RobLupella · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:02 pm

they had tires and suspension on the ShortVennam Miata but couldn't catch Frank. I can still hear Ram crying about how he can't keep up and wants to sell. So it isn't the CSP crowd that is whining.

If anyone should whine it's me since my car is the only one with the stock motor and running on Hankooks that are as blue as the wheels. LOL

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:19 pm

This discussion always makes me want to have a member's event where one car is used, all interested drivers get three runs, and best time wins. Then there's no whining or complaining about PAX, setup, etc.

I think it'd be pretty awesome for the best 10 drivers or so to compete like this...sorta like a playoff.

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:28 pm

Ten driver bracket race in Steve's AP2 at Piedmont!

PAX discussions and overprepped/underprepped car stories never get old.

jeremy gast · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:29 pm

Steven that is something we should have done for Jimmyv but someone would have to offer a car that know one is familiar with. I would have paid money to get in that set up!

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

JamesShort wrote:

Like I said, the whole STR class is underprepped (some more than others) but even the best prepped cars (Zach's or Jeremy's) are far from National prep. And by far, I mean $10k or more (full header back (titanium exhaust), ECU tuning, light weight 17x9 wheels (not TRMs), camber joints, wicked alignment, 25lb seats, bushings etc).

I think you SSM and CSP whiny babies just need to drive faster

.

If you think YOU'RE underprepped for STR you have no idea. I'm several $10k's shy of a proper SSM car, I don't even have the right car for christ's sake, at least you have the right car. There was at least one C4 in the trophies at Nats in SSM last year though, he was 2.5-3 seconds off the leader on each course, but still managed a 6th place trophy. It looks like he would have been 8th in CSP, I don't know if rain played a part in that. I'd really like to know more about that car. He's got some interesting aero going on on the car, especially along the sides and behind the rear wheels. Sound's like he has a built 383 like me plus a supercharger, not that I feel like I'm lacking much in the power department, at least not on our courses, but I cannot light up the rear 335s at will so I suppose I could use more. :shock:

I'd bet this SSM C4 is under 3000lbs with driver, mine 3500lbs. I'm pretty sure McKee's winning SSM RX-7 has well over 500 hp and weighs like 2500lbs, that's the car on which my PAX is based. I don't think I'd go all extreme with the aero like that car, but I would like to know more about the suspension setup, I suck at setting up suspension, I just buy off the shelf stuff that seem to work okay for other people, cross my fingers and drive around what I have. As for wheels, I'm running wheels I paid $400 shipped new, for ALL FOUR, they are 17x11 and ONLY weigh 27lbs each. :lol:

You are right though James, I should be driving faster no doubt. All excuses aside, as my car sits, I should be beating you STR guys by 2 seconds, maybe not on this past weekend's course, but the Danville one before that for sure.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:43 pm

RobLupella wrote:

:word: they had tires and suspension on the ShortVennam Miata but couldn't catch Frank. I can still hear Ram crying about how he can't keep up and wants to sell. So it isn't the CSP crowd that is whining.

If anyone should whine it's me since my car is the only one with the stock motor and running on Hankooks that are as blue as the wheels. LOL

The flying miata suspension Ram had was worse than stock suspension it only lowered and made it ride the bumpstops even worse. I quit driving with Ram 1 event after he got the FCM coilovers.

So the wheels and intake and bad suspension was what took it from being a C stock car. I could have put down the same times in a modestly prepped CS car that we did in Ram's but I now love RWD and double wishbone suspension because of that 6 event codrive so I didn't mind

. Granted, his new Fat Cat suspension is a whole other beast.

RobLupella · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:04 pm

Steven Carter wrote:

This discussion always makes me want to have a member's event where one car is used, all interested drivers get three runs, and best time wins. Then there's no whining or complaining about PAX, setup, etc.

I think it'd be pretty awesome for the best 10 drivers or so to compete like this...sorta like a playoff.

There is a Focus that usually has 3 or 4 drivers in it at a time LOL

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

Matt McGrain wrote:

Ten driver bracket race in Steve's AP2 at Piedmont!

PAX discussions and overprepped/underprepped car stories never get old.

I'm in! What's the going daily seat rental for an S2000 this year?

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:21 am

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

....and we are running on Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires which are fantastic street tires, probably the best all around performance tire ever made, but I would imagine they are not ST* competitive at Nationals else at least 1 person would use them, lol.

Update on the new Michelins -- Well, after reading the C&D/Tire Rack tire tests where the Pilot Super Sport soundly beat the Dunlop Star Spec in the dry autocross (and seriously beat it in the wet) and it was only 2/10ths behind the AD-08 dry autox winner, I suppose Michelin has actually created one serious tire. I love driving these things as they are very predictable, stick like glue, wear long (treadwear rating 300), are quiet and have much less NVH compared to Star Specs.

Test data:
Dry autocross AD-08 59.7, Pilot Super Sport 59.9, Star Spec 60.2, Hankook R-S3 60.3.

I hope to see how they work again on Saturday. We finally sorted out issues we've had with the Ground Control coilover/camber plates kit we installed last month -- what a pain. It turns out they shipped the kit to us with E46 M3 camber plates/top strut mount instead of non-M as needed. We had trouble getting the front ride height low enough without tire interference (the non-M E46 camber plate has a stack height that is 3/8" less, so that solved that problem), but, more importantly, we could not get more than about stock negative camber (about -1.3)! That part sucked as we really destroyed the edges at the last two autox events. Now with the proper plates installed (getting good at this, we did the whole thing in a bit over 2 hours yesterday), camber is at -3.1 at max setting (we did careful caliper measurements with a level, real alignment coming this week). I imagine going from -1.3 to -3.1 is going to have a substantial impact on front grip (car was understeering badly at Fayetteville) and massive reduction in edge destruction.

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