I know you hate PAX, but...

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

Disagree, R compounds are worth the $ for how much fun they are. I'm hooked.

Part of me really wants to go to a national event in my mazda. I'm still convinced it can beat the minis. MUCH better power and torque and able to fit more tire to compensate for its weight disadvantage. I was able to hold my own with Gwen and Spratte at a couple of events locally with my hankooks, despite being on 225 fronts instead of 245's like the good people do.

To Les's point though, even thought the Mazda is a much better PAX mobile, driving the Mini is simply a lot more fun. 250 lbs less, 50 more hp, and a limited slip makes the fact that I'm no longer in the top 5 in PAX at events seem ok.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:26 pm

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

If you look at population adjusted (for people 16 and over) miles driven data for the USA, we are back to 1995 levels after having peaked in ~2005, and it's still falling. This is the headwind we as a club and autocross as a sport is battling against.

University of Michigan News Service wrote:

Percentage of Teen Drivers Continues to Drop

ANN ARBOR, Mich. -- Thirty years ago, eight in 10 Americans ages 17-19 had a driver's license. Today, it's six in 10, say University of Michigan researchers.

In a follow-up to their previous studies examining the percentage of young persons with driver's licenses, Michael Sivak and Brandon Schoettle of the U-M Transportation Research Institute say the trend has accelerated.

In 1983, about 87 percent of 19-year-olds, 80 percent of 18-year-olds and 69 percent of 17-year-olds owned a driver's license. Twenty-five years later in 2008, the percentages were 75, 65 and 50, respectively.

New data presented by Sivak and Schoettle shows that in 2010, those numbers have plummeted even more: about 70 percent of 19-year-olds, 61 percent of 18-year-olds and 46 percent of 17-year-olds had a driver's license.

In their research update appearing in the journal Traffic Injury Prevention, Sivak and Schoettle extend their analysis by using driver's license records and general population data from the Federal Highway Administration and the U.S. Census Bureau

While their findings show that the reduction in the percentage of teen drivers with a license continued in 2010, they also reveal a decline in the number of driver's licenses for people of most age groups—except for slight increases for those 25-29 and those over 70.

"Overall, the observed decrease in driver licensing is consistent with the continued increase in Internet usage," Sivak said. "In our previous research, we found that the percentage of young drivers was inversely related to the proportion of Internet users. Virtual contact, through electronic means, reduces the need for actual contact."

jeremy gast · **Posted:** Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:49 pm

Matt put Frank on the list! Missed it this year past dont want to again.

Cash Davidson · **Posted:** Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:11 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

If you look at population adjusted (for people 16 and over) miles driven data for the USA, we are back to 1995 levels after having peaked in ~2005, and it's still falling. This is the headwind we as a club and autocross as a sport is battling against.

University of Michigan News Service wrote:

Percentage of Teen Drivers Continues to Drop

"Overall, the observed decrease in driver licensing is consistent with the continued increase in Internet usage," Sivak said. "In our previous research, we found that the percentage of young drivers was inversely related to the proportion of Internet users. Virtual contact, through electronic means, reduces the need for actual contact."

I see it in my own house. I have two teens - one will be 18 in a few months - neither has a license. They simply don't see the need or show the interest. When we were teen's, if you didn't have a license, you saw no one, did nothing and were out of the loop. My kids have iphones, laptops, skype, facetime, instagram, etc. They a talking, playing, and laughing with friends across town and across the country - almost to the point of annoyance. As far as I can tell, their only need for a car is to avoid eating lunch in the school cafeteria. So they need at least one friend that can drive.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:55 pm

Cash Davidson wrote:

I have two teens - one will be 18 in a few months - neither has a license. They simply don't see the need or show the interest.

That sounds like a win for Dad's insurance (cost) to me!

Cash Davidson · **Posted:** Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:58 pm

Vincent Keene wrote:

Cash Davidson wrote:

I have two teens - one will be 18 in a few months - neither has a license. They simply don't see the need or show the interest.

That sounds like a win for Dad's insurance (cost) to me!

How do you think I afford my toys? I'm certainly not pushing them. :wink:

jeremy gast · **Posted:** Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:09 pm

See I am looking forward to mine driving. So I dont have to cart her or her brother around everywhere if I dont want to.

She is more than likely starting out in a csp pax also and will grow to hate it just like me!

Jeremy Ellison · **Joined:** Fri May 13, 2011 5:01 pm **Posts:** 186

Matt McGrain wrote:

I know Zach, Noah, and Gwen are in... who else? :thumbsup:

James and I are in as well

RobLupella · **Posted:** Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:45 pm

Cash Davidson wrote:

Vincent Keene wrote:

Cash Davidson wrote:

I have two teens - one will be 18 in a few months - neither has a license. They simply don't see the need or show the interest.

That sounds like a win for Dad's insurance (cost) to me!

How do you think I afford my toys? I'm certainly not pushing them. :wink:

And then you would have to buy more cars for them since you certainly don't have enough :lol:

RobLupella · **Posted:** Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:50 pm

Cash Davidson wrote:

Ryan Holton wrote:

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

If you look at population adjusted (for people 16 and over) miles driven data for the USA, we are back to 1995 levels after having peaked in ~2005, and it's still falling. This is the headwind we as a club and autocross as a sport is battling against.

University of Michigan News Service wrote:

Percentage of Teen Drivers Continues to Drop

"Overall, the observed decrease in driver licensing is consistent with the continued increase in Internet usage," Sivak said. "In our previous research, we found that the percentage of young drivers was inversely related to the proportion of Internet users. Virtual contact, through electronic means, reduces the need for actual contact."

I see it in my own house. I have two teens - one will be 18 in a few months - neither has a license. They simply don't see the need or show the interest. When we were teen's, if you didn't have a license, you saw no one, did nothing and were out of the loop. My kids have iphones, laptops, skype, facetime, instagram, etc. They a talking, playing, and laughing with friends across town and across the country - almost to the point of annoyance. As far as I can tell, their only need for a car is to avoid eating lunch in the school cafeteria. So they need at least one friend that can drive.

This just makes me sad that kids have no interest in doing stuff. They are more interested in vicariously doing stuff so that their thumbs are talented but if they actually tried to do stuff they can't. We now have kids that are "professional gamers"

and others who think that what they do in a sim game translates to the real world. sigh, I'm getting old.

Cash Davidson · **Posted:** Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:29 pm

RobLupella wrote:

This just makes me sad that kids have no interest in doing stuff. They are more interested in vicariously doing stuff so that their thumbs are talented but if they actually tried to do stuff they can't. We now have kids that are "professional gamers"

and others who think that what they do in a sim game translates to the real world. sigh, I'm getting old.

I agree there is a segment of the teenage demographic that is "disconnected" to an unhealthy degree. We have been fortunate that ours have interests beyond just using their thumbs - my youngest spends 6-days/week at the dance studio and last week won her second consecutive national championship (Woohoo).

She just doesn't see driving as necessary - which explains why I miss so many AutoX's.

But what does this have to do with PAX? I dunno . . .

RobLupella · **Posted:** Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:47 pm

Cash Davidson wrote:

RobLupella wrote:

This just makes me sad that kids have no interest in doing stuff. They are more interested in vicariously doing stuff so that their thumbs are talented but if they actually tried to do stuff they can't. We now have kids that are "professional gamers"

and others who think that what they do in a sim game translates to the real world. sigh, I'm getting old.

I agree there is a segment of the teenage demographic that is "disconnected" to an unhealthy degree. We have been fortunate that ours have interests beyond just using their thumbs - my youngest spends 6-days/week at the dance studio and last week won her second consecutive national championship (Woohoo).

She just doesn't see driving as necessary - which explains why I miss so many AutoX's.

But what does this have to do with PAX? I dunno . . .

WOW, that is great!!

steve remchak · **Posted:** Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:42 pm

Well Cash, until your daughter decides to go to Duke you should be good. After a Duke education apparently, PAX is all you can think about................ :lol:

BTW, my kid could give a damn about video games......... so much for that military job I guess.............. never has cared to play them.

But, she has been riding shotgun forever. Single cab pick-ups don't afford much in the way of options for car-seat placement.

The view out the front glass at speed can become a life altering force. My Oldman is retired PSP................ pretty sure I got some of this from him.

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

On this we both can agree for sure.

Gwen Baake wrote:

All of us may do this for slightly different reasons, but the bottom line and primary one should be BECAUSE IT'S FUN!

My definition of fun is just different than yours. I didn't buy/build my car simply for autocross if that isn't completely obvious, it would be hopelessly uncompetitive at a national level in SSM. I built my car for fun, since I was a wee lad hanging posters in my bedroom I wanted a car that would perform like the Lamborghini, Ferrari, and Lotus of the 80s I dreamed about. I now have that, well at least until the engine blows up, and I did it for under $25K. I realized awhile back that even though I have a good job, nothing short of a big lottery win is going to fill my garage with exotic machines, I had a taste with the Z06, but even that came with a big car payment and 4 years ago the economy was looking really horrible, I wanted exotic car performance but at my budget and C4 was it. It may be a bit crusty and dated looking and may not be the easiest thing to wheel around the tight cones at an autocross, but its incredibly exhilarating on freeway on ramps, its mine, I've never paid a car payment, and on the right autocross course on a day when my mind is dialed in correctly its nothing short of sublime.

As for national level competition, I've thought about it several times, but years ago I had a co-driver that ended up being a national champion who consistently whipped my ass by about 1.5 seconds and when I tried running the Z06 in SS one certain local guy whipped me most of the time and he never came close to a national championship when he made the trip, so I've just never felt the need to drive halfway across the country to find out what I already know. I'm sure I could benefit from it and have some fun along the way, but I'm also pretty sure I would hate the long uncomfortable drive back with a sore ass from all the beatings it would receive. I certainly don't have the car for it now and have my hands full just trying to beat all the local guys in 4 cylinder Hondas and Miata. Maybe one of these days I'll try again with a CSP Miata, they seem to suit me as I did pretty damn well on the 225s that were available at the time, with the 275s that are available now they are just sick.

I commend your effort, perseverance, and achievement Gwen and really like having you and team Grab n' Go at our events, it really keeps things in perspective to see just what even an HS car can do with the right prep and the right drivers. I'm glad we can have very different definitions of what is fun yet still enjoy the same sport, one of the many things that makes autocross great, I guess even PAX is a part of that and I realize that while it is an imperfect measure, it is the best that we have, but I still think PAX SUX.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:23 pm

Les Davis wrote:

As for national level competition, I've thought about it several times, but years ago I had a co-driver that ended up being a national champion who consistently whipped my ass by about 1.5 seconds and when I tried running the Z06 in SS one certain local guy whipped me most of the time and he never came close to a national championship when he made the trip, so I've just never felt the need to drive halfway across the country to find out what I already know.

I understand this sentiment well. I have given myself 3-5 years of car prep and driving to see where I can go. If I can't place well against local competition, or beat some of the good Triad/CCR drivers at NCAC then going to National Tour events is somewhat pointless. It may be a fun experience, but I'd rather not pay money to show up in the SCCA archives as a DFL.

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