THSCC Forums

Right, that was kinda my point. For some folks its cheaper and for some poor souls its alot closer than you might think. You also can base a rule considering the pluses of a handful of cars

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

I'm one of those poor souls, $1200 for a set of 285x18 hankook rs-3's, but, the upside is I "should" be able to get 2 years worth of runs on the tires since I'm now a 1 driver car again (no Jordan), so ~$600 per year.

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Rodney

'08 Bullitt mustang, CAM 7
Autox VP '09-'10, President '11-'12, interim President 2nd half of ‘14
proud recipient of the Bowie Grey service award '12
Now just a guy driving a mustang....

Comparing costs of A6s vs something like a Star Spec et al is really not a significant argument. Heck, comparing the A6 to the BFG R1 at the same cost: on the same car, I've seen about 90 runs before cording the edges of an R1 vs 12 run for the A6. A Star Spec lasts much longer on said car (just took off a set after 2.5 years, life left but they are tramlining and noisy), probably well over 200+ runs before edges would cord.

However, even given the significant life factor difference at similar costs, you have to consider a bunch of other costs: 2nd set of wheels and lugging them to events, changing tires, etc; the cost to flip the tires (on the A6 I would need to flip them once per life, hence twice the mounting fees apply per set). However, the biggest cost of all is the loss of potential people to the sport. When a novice is greatly uncompetitive in stock class on his/her street tires (even if they are the top end summer tire), many bug out at that point.

I think we've seen a sea-change in spending decisions of many people. They're sick of paying thousands of dollars per season, lugging wheels/tires to events, changing them (sometimes in 100+ heat index sunny days), lugging them to tire store to flip, etc. Hoosier better build a "street" tire soon (I'm guessing they are long at work on such a tire since they likely see the writing on the wall).

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

That logic is flawed because you have to keep a car for 2 years to get 2 years worth of runs on the tires.

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Keith Q.
2008 Top Gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmX8XuZ_DCo&NR=1

Bahahahahaaa! ^

$50 says Rodney doesn't have the Bullitt at TNT time next year.

FWIW, 255 & 235 (in 17") Star Specs for the Honda are $684 versus $1188 for 275/245 A6's. That's a considerable difference.

I'll take that bet, oh, wait.....

I'm already looking at other cars, but there's nothing that "logically" can take the place of the bullitt considering my hit list of car buying factors.

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Rodney

'08 Bullitt mustang, CAM 7
Autox VP '09-'10, President '11-'12, interim President 2nd half of ‘14
proud recipient of the Bowie Grey service award '12
Now just a guy driving a mustang....

Some would disagree with you. The folks at the pointy end aren't going to start with a full tread set of tires. Factor in the additional costs of shaving + the reduced life of the tire and the costs get even closer.

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

True. I suspect the whole Road Tire experiment is aimed at new(er) participants and providing a lower cost avenue to compete at the cool National Tour events, and not at the "Win At Any Cost" Tour regulars. Whether that remains, or is then seeded with pointy-end types who have figured out the Road tire formula will be fun to watch.

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Steve Carter
1972 Datsun 240Z-- resto pics at http://picasaweb.google.com/srcartermd
2007 GPW Honda S2000-- STR 86

Of course the win-at-any-cost group will figure out which tires are the "best" for a given pavement at a given location, and they will then figure out what level of tread depth equals the best performance, and then they will have multiple sets of tires shaved to the correct depths and perhaps different brands for different pavement types, etc.

For the high-end national level competitors, cost will likely be only marginally smaller. However, what I was referring to is the other 95+% of people who just want to have some fun and be reasonably competitive at local events. In stock class today, that's not possible without autocross-style R-comps, but with street tire stock class, you can actually show up and drive what you came in on.

Example: A couple of weeks ago, I met Jackie down in Savannah, and we did an autocross on Hutchinson Island with the local SCCA there (using the pit/paddock for the race track there which is a public road, bizarre and wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it and driven on it!). Driving the E46 in STX (only thing that puts it in STX is a rear bar and 1/2" wider front wheel (square setup)), I placed 2nd out of about 15 drivers on Pilot Super Sports (which are fantastic tires by the way) the car was driven there on. Had a great time, competitive, no changing tires, etc. I'm guessing many newcomers to the sport would also appreciate the opportunity to not have to pony up for R-comps/wheels/changing at events/etc.

So if the sport is ONLY about the top 2% of drivers, then yeah, perhaps costs won't be much different. I'm thinking the other 98% might want a say however.

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

Question:

Do the fastest 140 treadwear tires keep their grip if they are "driven/autocrossed" down to optimum tread depth versus shaved?

That can make a BIG difference on total cost.

Been there done that. Never ever shaved a tire but certainly "wore" a bunch of $600 sets (in 1977 and 1978) michelins to optimum depth for big events such as Nationals.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

I don’t know what you guys do to tires, but I have a set of Hoosiers that I have 80 runs on and feel that I can get another 10 to 15 out of them. V710’s on the same 2006 stock Miata give me about 125 runs. I also run StarSpec’s on the Miata and the MS3. Star specs will last for 15K miles plus 5 autox’s including a T&T . The difference in time between StarSpec’s and Hoosiers is about 0.5 to 0.7 seconds on a 40 second run. Not a lot of difference in time. The real difference between them is how your car drives. With Hoosiers, I’ll hit the cones with my rear tires, very fast turn in. With StarSpec’s, I’ll hit them with the front tire because I’m tiring to make up for the lack turn in and the significant increase in over steer. With street tires being so close in performance to R compounds, It’s very hard to justify the difference in cost for the improved performance. My Hoosiers are paid up for this year, plus I have a practice set. BTW, Star Spec’s are great on the track, the MS3 has 16.5K miles on them with 600 to 700 on the track.

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Mike Miller
AutoX VP 2016/2017
Just a C Stock Miata DD
Mazda Speed 3 Family Car
Corvette Z06 Toy

I think the RT class is a fantastic idea. The SCCA will definitely need to evaluate it and see about what they want to do in terms of PAX.

R-comps debate: I have thought about buying R comps for a few years now, and I couldn't justify the cost on my limited budget. I feel that the cost of autocross is already high, and adding R comps into the mix just puts a multiplier (note: not additive) on the cost. Yeah, there's something to be said about making every last second count at autocross and prepping the car to the limits of stock classing, but the barrier of entry for the .5 - .7 second difference is absolutely insane. Everybody in THSCC is friendly and welcoming for the most part, but autocross is very insular and adding a massive price tag to be considered in the top 2% just furthers that notion.

I like the TIR setup that we have now because there's always a bunch of people and it's always great competition.

i am no were near an expert... but I believe the answer is yes there is a potential difference. non race tires can still heat cycle out. also waiting for the tire to be "driven" down can cause the tire to age over the course of a year or 2 and not be as grippy. that being said, I drove my star spec's down to nothing and never felt a bit of difference until the last event. and I can contribute that to age, low temps, crappy driving, and being past the useable tread... so I am not all that experienced in this area. I also believe that I could not make the difference between a shaved tire and a fresh non shaved tire.

Your car:
Light
Well balanced
Decent Camber
Great suspension
RWD

Cars that eat tires (in general):
Crappy strut suspension
Heavy (at least heavier)
No camber
FWD

No camber + same wheels turning and and accelerating = quick death

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

I can see the need for these changes it is gonna take a few years to get it on an "EVEN" playing feild. For me hoosier is where it is at. I cant say that i will never be back on street tires to race but I can not see it happening any time soon.

Last count I had right at 100 runs on the tires that I won NCAC with, the very same set I started the year with in Laurinburg!!

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[color=#FFFFFF][/color]http://www.usedmiatapartsonline.com for all your used miata parts needs
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2000 miata se Estreet,going to rally
2004 mazdaspeed miata bsp #77
shifter kart also(someone buy this $1500)