SCCA introduces Street Tire Stock Classes

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

hmmm....

http://www.scca.com/events/news.cfm?eid=3893&cid=50923

I'm not advocating we add these classes... but there it is. Another way to have a tire war.

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:59 am

and I was just talking to Mark Sr about this....interesting. I say we investigate this for 2013 and let the SCCA battle this one out. I think we're set for 2012. If we as a club want to followup and implement in 2012, let the discussions begin. Other than your link Art, I didn't see anything else.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

?? Ins't this what TIR sort of is already (I recognize TIR isn't an SCCA class, but its what WE have already)? I guess the difference is that we allow SP and P cars, and we roll them all into one class, but we sort of are already doing this. I see no need for us to divide up a healthy class into a bunch of smaller classes. We already have too many people who finish 1st out of 1 entry in classes.

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:26 am

This is 'sort of' like our TIR class but this sounds quite a bit more generalized with only three choices to play in. It reminds me of rallycross in the sense that there are only a few options.

Plus, the difference from TIR is that the PAX would be adjusted to reflect the higher treadwear versus A6's or V710's.

I'd say it's a good idea and comes across almost as a answer for people who are tired of getting 30-40 good runs on a set of $1200 Hoosiers but I don't think it will be a popular idea at the local level until TIR class is eliminated. My $.02

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:40 am

Matt McGrain wrote:

Plus, the difference from TIR is that the PAX would be adjusted to reflect the higher treadwear versus A6's or V710's.

I'd say it's a good idea and comes across almost as a answer for people who are tired of getting 30-40 good runs on a set of $1200 Hoosiers but I don't think it will be a popular idea at the local level until TIR class is eliminated. My $.02

I didn't read that in the SCCA statement the pax is the same whether your car runs in RT class or in stock. the pax is standard Rick Ruth pax RTP. It sure relieves the 1300$ hoosiers for larger cars.

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

Bernie Baake wrote:

It sure relieves the 1300$ hoosiers for larger cars.

You haven't checked the price of A6s this year, have you? $1300 will buy me 3.6 tires, not including delivery and mounting. That said, a set of good/competitive 'street tires' costs almost as much.

We need an OBMS (Off-brand mud & snow) class. Than would give us autocross with rallycross grip levels!

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:56 am

BriceJohnson wrote:

?? Ins't this what TIR sort of is already (I recognize TIR isn't an SCCA class, but its what WE have already)? I guess the difference is that we allow SP and P cars, and we roll them all into one class, but we sort of are already doing this. I see no need for us to divide up a healthy class into a bunch of smaller classes. We already have too many people who finish 1st out of 1 entry in classes.

Agreed, but TIRE does tend to skew towards Stock cars, as those cars are generally closer to 100% prepared to the category limits. Example: BS Stock S2k vs BSP S2k with a CAI and lowering springs.

Some other places split the TIRE category in 2, Stock Tire and Street Prepared Tire but we need another class like I need to run the bus under another bridge. :stick:

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:17 am

Matt McGrain wrote:

I'd say it's a good idea and comes across almost as a answer for people who are tired of getting 30-40 good runs on a set of $1200 Hoosiers but I don't think it will be a popular idea at the local level until TIR class is eliminated. My $.02

30-40? We managed to cord the edges of brand new A6s in about 12 runs at NCAC 2006. That was really fun at just under $300 each. I suppose Hoosier has always been happy that huge numbers of sheep, er people, show up at their door clamoring for their short-life-stickies just itching to spend $1200-$1600 three or four times per season. I wonder how hard they lobby the SCCA?

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:44 am

Hmm, I wonder how they'll handle shootouts at ProSolos. Shootouts already use RTP/PAX to equalize cars from different classes, right? Then Stock cars on street tires would be at a huge disadvantage when competing directly against those running on R comps, since the index wouldn't be adjusted for the performance difference.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:48 am

Arthur McDonald wrote:

You haven't checked the price of A6s this year, have you? $1300 will buy me 3.6 tires, not including delivery and mounting. That said, a set of good/competitive 'street tires' costs a little more than half as much, including mounting.

fixed.

No need to change a fun TIR class. Let SCCA figure it out first then go from there, if we decide to.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:08 am

Steven Carter wrote:

Arthur McDonald wrote:

You haven't checked the price of A6s this year, have you? $1300 will buy me 3.6 tires, not including delivery and mounting. That said, a set of good/competitive 'street tires' costs a little more than half as much, including mounting.

fixed.

Sorry Steven, but you are wrong.

A set of 275/18 star specs are $1,100+ shipping
A set of RE-11's are $1,252+ shipping
A set of AD-08's are $1,524 + shipping

Big, fast, heavy cars take big, expensive tires.

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:10 am

If I didn't flip/rotate the A6's I'd have probably seen ~15 runs 'til cord on the Si before I put the FSB on, especially if it was a place like Sanford or Laurinburg. It just sucks knowing your performance in stock class is weighted so heavilly on how fresh your tires are and if you ever venture to a Tour event, it just seems pointless not being on stickers because that way you can't make excuses.

It always felt like there was about 1-1.5 seconds between a fresh set of A6's and ones that were all freckled with pebbles and OPR (on the rears from the fronts in my case). The Kumhos were actually a lot faster towards the end though fwiw.

I'd think that the PAX would be reduced by some factor, right? (not that it matters that much)

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:21 am

Ryan Holton wrote:

Steven Carter wrote:

Arthur McDonald wrote:

You haven't checked the price of A6s this year, have you? $1300 will buy me 3.6 tires, not including delivery and mounting. That said, a set of good/competitive 'street tires' costs a little more than half as much, including mounting.

fixed.

Sorry Steven, but you are wrong.

A set of 275/18 star specs are $1,100+ shipping
A set of RE-11's are $1,252+ shipping
A set of AD-08's are $1,524 + shipping

Big, fast, heavy cars take big, expensive tires.

Depends a lot on tire size and the street tire you choose. Hankook RS-3's are generally less expensive than Star Specs or RE-11's or AD-08's, and the Hankooks are the faster/fastest street tire for many cars. My set of RS-3's (255/40/17) was $520 new, compared to $1128 for comparably sized A6's. Add shipping and mounting/balancing for both, and the result is 50% lower cost for the RS-3's. Also, life expentancy is another major difference - I'll easily get two full seasons of autocross, plus a couple track events, out of my RS-3's. A6's are typically good for one season of autocross, at least in my case and that of many others. For my situation, we're talking street tires costing only ~20% of R comps.

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:28 am

Matt McGrain wrote:

I'd think that the PAX would be reduced by some factor, right? (not that it matters that much)

That would make sense, but that's not what the SCCA is proposing.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:28 am

Ryan Holton wrote:

Steven Carter wrote:

Arthur McDonald wrote:

You haven't checked the price of A6s this year, have you? $1300 will buy me 3.6 tires, not including delivery and mounting. That said, a set of good/competitive 'street tires' costs a little more than half as much, including mounting.

fixed.

Sorry Steven, but you are wrong.

A set of 275/18 star specs are $1,100+ shipping
A set of RE-11's are $1,252+ shipping
A set of AD-08's are $1,524 + shipping

Big, fast, heavy cars take big, expensive tires.

You make a good point. But for my car, in my particular case, a set of RS3s is $650 without mounting. Hoosiers (275/40/17) are still $1250 sans shipping and mounting. I would not say that I am necessarily wrong, but in your particular case, the cost difference is minimal. On a per run basis, I bet street tires are still more cost-effective. Competitive in an RTR class? Not sure. Diff'rent strokes, eh?

Depends on the car choice, obviously. No one forces a competitor to pick a certain class/car, and if one wants to be competitive and cost-effective, an accounting of all potential costs should be undertaken for each potential car choice. I went away from DS because I didn't want to chew up money on tires, along with the fact that the 2009 WRX is not a good choice for that class in general.

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