OUTDATED 2012 schedule thread

JamesShort · **Posted:** Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:19 pm

Ram's car was very balanced at Zmax. People complaining about understeer were overdriving....plain and simple. If you can't adapt to various conditions, you are a shitty driver (ie Les and Kevin

).

I'm a fan of zMax for multiple reasons even though I tend to have bad things happen (Buckley and the WRX bumper and then the WRX engine blowing up). But yes the grip is lower than other sites, but the opportunity for VERY different style courses with lots of on/off camber turns, sweepers, transitions etc is very opportunistic.

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:50 pm

JamesShort wrote:

Ram's car was very balanced at Zmax. People complaining about understeer were overdriving....plain and simple. If you can't adapt to various conditions, you are a shitty driver (ie Les and Kevin

).

Wow.

The NCAC course was just sweeper, sweeper, sweeper, sweeper. More of a test of the width of your tires than anything else... But I guess last time the guy who designed that course (*ahem* :roll:

) came to one of our events, he complained that "IT'S ALL SLALOMS," so maybe we just have different ideas what autocross is. :whoknows:

JohnByers · **Posted:** Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:25 pm

JohnByers wrote:

Arthur McDonald wrote:

I know it's hard to put together an AX schedule. So if I have to make a choice between two entertainment activities... I'll have to make a choice. No real problem.

My thoughts exactly.

Unless I read wrong, ALMS race is Sat September 15th. Nice, can watch that race & hit up NCCAR on Sunday! That is if you will allow Sun only drivers?

steve remchak · **Posted:** Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:09 pm

Zach Hill wrote:

JamesShort wrote:

Ram's car was very balanced at Zmax. People complaining about understeer were overdriving....plain and simple. If you can't adapt to various conditions, you are a shitty driver (ie Les and Kevin

).

Wow.

The NCAC course was just sweeper, sweeper, sweeper, sweeper. More of a test of the width of your tires than anything else... But I guess last time the guy who designed that course (*ahem* :roll:

) came to one of our events, he complained that "IT'S ALL SLALOMS," so maybe we just have different ideas what autocross is. :whoknows:

hmmn, seems to be a lot of that going around recently Zach.

what exactly is Autocross?

what exactly is the goal when setting up an Autocross course.

what exactly is the desired result when setting up an Autocross?

if I may, it is my considered opinion that AutoX descended from Time Speed Rally as an affordable option to those that wanted to invest a day on course without the prep levels required for full on rally driving. as such everything had to be downsized.

so back in the mid 1960s downsized egos threw low powered cars about on small spaces with a few cones to make it challenging enough to merit competition. suprisingly so, the cars that handled well brought home "the wood".

skill levels advanced with seat time and mechanical innovation stepped in and some AutoX'ers advanced exponentially.

it became a cult sport, clubs were formed, and the times they were ah raging.

but over time a cloud arose and slowly that cloud began to sink upon the field. the early adopters grew old, grew weary, or just grew out of the sport and "the new breed" moved in to take control. aaaahhhah this is where we begin the tale of toil........

as with any new society that assumes / swallows an old society there is excess and hubris. courses are extravagant and detailed to the extreme. one-up-manship is the new norm, the way to prove dominance. many carcasses rot in the hot sun as victory is proclaimed to much jubilation by a very small few.

it was the best of times............... hehehebahaha............. it was the worst of times.

and then the tide swell rolled back further and further; a calm had arrived. but gosh Ollie, we are down on attendance and the economy is tough. AutoX is a spirit not a sport but we can't seem to find that feeling so much as we once did. we try to draw new converts, but at the same time we don't want to diminish the thrill of competition that the few of us enjoy so much. sweepers? peshah, not in my Club. we are the Slalom Kings. we shall dominate your people one day. we have already won the battle of conscience, die you Slolam bastages.................

peace or challenge? where to turn? nationalism or vagrant rallying about the various venues that pop up across the state? stand tall in line or stand for something?

i could go on for years on this i suppose ya'll know. and i say this in my best impression of Mr. Kevin Allen. F*** Y** if you can't take a joke.

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:01 am

JohnByers wrote:

Unless I read wrong, ALMS race is Sat September 15th. Nice, can watch that race & hit up NCCAR on Sunday! That is if you will allow Sun only drivers?

Sweet! So the race is only Saturday, affecting only the full course autocross. We're already confirmed with Simon & Co. at NCCAR so it sounds like keeping it is the wise option.

Sunday is the Points Event, and Saturday is just sort of a bonus event at this point. Sunday only absolutely okay.

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

steve remchak wrote:

Zach Hill wrote:

JamesShort wrote:

Ram's car was very balanced at Zmax. People complaining about understeer were overdriving....plain and simple. If you can't adapt to various conditions, you are a shitty driver (ie Les and Kevin

).

Wow.

The NCAC course was just sweeper, sweeper, sweeper, sweeper. More of a test of the width of your tires than anything else... But I guess last time the guy who designed that course (*ahem* :roll:

) came to one of our events, he complained that "IT'S ALL SLALOMS," so maybe we just have different ideas what autocross is. :whoknows:

hmmn, seems to be a lot of that going around recently Zach.

what exactly is Autocross?

what exactly is the goal when setting up an Autocross course.

what exactly is the desired result when setting up an Autocross?

if I may, it is my considered opinion that AutoX descended from Time Speed Rally as an affordable option to those that wanted to invest a day on course without the prep levels required for full on rally driving. as such everything had to be downsized.

so back in the mid 1960s downsized egos threw low powered cars about on small spaces with a few cones to make it challenging enough to merit competition. suprisingly so, the cars that handled well brought home "the wood".

skill levels advanced with seat time and mechanical innovation stepped in and some AutoX'ers advanced exponentially.

it became a cult sport, clubs were formed, and the times they were ah raging.

but over time a cloud arose and slowly that cloud began to sink upon the field. the early adopters grew old, grew weary, or just grew out of the sport and "the new breed" moved in to take control. aaaahhhah this is where we begin the tale of toil........

as with any new society that assumes / swallows an old society there is excess and hubris. courses are extravagant and detailed to the extreme. one-up-manship is the new norm, the way to prove dominance. many carcasses rot in the hot sun as victory is proclaimed to much jubilation by a very small few.

it was the best of times............... hehehebahaha............. it was the worst of times.

and then the tide swell rolled back further and further; a calm had arrived. but gosh Ollie, we are down on attendance and the economy is tough. AutoX is a spirit not a sport but we can't seem to find that feeling so much as we once did. we try to draw new converts, but at the same time we don't want to diminish the thrill of competition that the few of us enjoy so much. sweepers? peshah, not in my Club. we are the Slalom Kings. we shall dominate your people one day. we have already won the battle of conscience, die you Slolam bastages.................

peace or challenge? where to turn? nationalism or vagrant rallying about the various venues that pop up across the state? stand tall in line or stand for something?

i could go on for years on this i suppose ya'll know. and i say this in my best impression of Mr. Kevin Allen. F*** Y** if you can't take a joke.

stop posting

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:57 am

steve remchak wrote:

Zach Hill wrote:

JamesShort wrote:

Ram's car was very balanced at Zmax. People complaining about understeer were overdriving....plain and simple. If you can't adapt to various conditions, you are a shitty driver (ie Les and Kevin

).

Wow.

The NCAC course was just sweeper, sweeper, sweeper, sweeper. More of a test of the width of your tires than anything else... But I guess last time the guy who designed that course (*ahem* :roll:

) came to one of our events, he complained that "IT'S ALL SLALOMS," so maybe we just have different ideas what autocross is. :whoknows:

hmmn, seems to be a lot of that going around recently Zach.

what exactly is Autocross?

what exactly is the goal when setting up an Autocross course.

what exactly is the desired result when setting up an Autocross?

if I may, it is my considered opinion that AutoX descended from Time Speed Rally as an affordable option to those that wanted to invest a day on course without the prep levels required for full on rally driving. as such everything had to be downsized.

so back in the mid 1960s downsized egos threw low powered cars about on small spaces with a few cones to make it challenging enough to merit competition. suprisingly so, the cars that handled well brought home "the wood".

skill levels advanced with seat time and mechanical innovation stepped in and some AutoX'ers advanced exponentially.

it became a cult sport, clubs were formed, and the times they were ah raging.

but over time a cloud arose and slowly that cloud began to sink upon the field. the early adopters grew old, grew weary, or just grew out of the sport and "the new breed" moved in to take control. aaaahhhah this is where we begin the tale of toil........

as with any new society that assumes / swallows an old society there is excess and hubris. courses are extravagant and detailed to the extreme. one-up-manship is the new norm, the way to prove dominance. many carcasses rot in the hot sun as victory is proclaimed to much jubilation by a very small few.

it was the best of times............... hehehebahaha............. it was the worst of times.

and then the tide swell rolled back further and further; a calm had arrived. but gosh Ollie, we are down on attendance and the economy is tough. AutoX is a spirit not a sport but we can't seem to find that feeling so much as we once did. we try to draw new converts, but at the same time we don't want to diminish the thrill of competition that the few of us enjoy so much. sweepers? peshah, not in my Club. we are the Slalom Kings. we shall dominate your people one day. we have already won the battle of conscience, die you Slolam bastages.................

peace or challenge? where to turn? nationalism or vagrant rallying about the various venues that pop up across the state? stand tall in line or stand for something?

i could go on for years on this i suppose ya'll know. and i say this in my best impression of Mr. Kevin Allen. F*** Y** if you can't take a joke.

Steve, have you ever thought for one second that the way we autox is a function of the sites we have access to?

steve remchak · **Posted:** Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:18 am

STOP POSTING?

ok Andrew i will, since you asked nicely and all.

of course Ryan i understand some sites limit the number of elements that can be employed. but i disagree that the type of elements or the combination / duplication of elements in a tight space is a required evil.

look, i think AutoX can be beneficial as a learning tool for drivers young and old. it requires you to keep your eyes up, it teaches traction limitations and concentration on actually driving a vehicle.

the main reason i will be attending two or more events this year is the fact that my 16 yr old has a car and a license now. but let's face it, we will be AutoXing in a station wagon. how much fun are we going to have on a tight technical course? not much.

and before anyone brings up the obvious.............. "shoulda bought another car" arguement, we decided this car was a safe, fun and functional option for her going forward hopefully thru college.

now these forays into the sea of cones will no doubt still be enjoyable for MM, and i will tolerate the courses (bitching the entire time no doubt) as time spent with family can never be taken for granted.

just asking for a little forethought on the part of course designers as to who actually attends our events. 10 to 15 of those people are total newbs so let's back off on the line of sight trickery. can we do that maybe just a little? do we really need a decreasing size slalom?

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:38 am

steve remchak wrote:

STOP POSTING?

ok Andrew i will, since you asked nicely and all.

of course Ryan i understand some sites limit the number of elements that can be employed. but i disagree that the type of elements or the combination / duplication of elements in a tight space is a required evil.

look, i think AutoX can be beneficial as a learning tool for drivers young and old. it requires you to keep your eyes up, it teaches traction limitations and concentration on actually driving a vehicle.

the main reason i will be attending two or more events this year is the fact that my 16 yr old has a car and a license now. but let's face it, we will be AutoXing in a station wagon. how much fun are we going to have on a tight technical course? not much.

and before anyone brings up the obvious.............. "shoulda bought another car" arguement, we decided this car was a safe, fun and functional option for her going forward hopefully thru college.

now these forays into the sea of cones will no doubt still be enjoyable for MM, and i will tolerate the courses (bitching the entire time no doubt) as time spent with family can never be taken for granted.

just asking for a little forethought on the part of course designers as to who actually attends our events. 10 to 15 of those people are total newbs so let's back off on the line of sight trickery. can we do that maybe just a little? do we really need a decreasing size slalom?

Steve, thanks for volunteering to be the event chair at the event's you attend!

In all seriousness, what exactly is your point here? As far as I can tell, you're asking the club to cater to you when you choose to grace us w/ your presence. The courses are what the courses are. We try to keep a balanced course between slow and fast cars. Every EC has a slightly different approach to setting up the course. From a club perspective, as long as it's safe, the EC's may setup the course as they see fit. You said it yourself, autox'g teaches you to keep your eyes up. You also need to understand the course while walking it. I hope you'll come out an autox more w/ the kid, great way to spend time w/ the family. Just leave the bitching at home.

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:18 pm

steve remchak wrote:

...and i will tolerate the courses (bitching the entire time no doubt) as time spent with family can never be taken for granted.

Mine too. As a VP it's REALLY tough to get off work to GM a course the day before the event, especially in the spring when weekends are crazy at my stores and I should really be there to make more sales, especially in this murky economy. Not to mention I have to get the blessings of my better looking half, and with a 2 year old hellion, it's a huge commitment but I keep that in perspective. It all depends on interest level because autocross is a full day commitment just like a round of 18, a Nascar race, a day on the deep blue sea chasing dolphin, working on a Lemons car, etc.. and doesn't really matter what you're driving of course.

It's just tough for those that volunteer to hear we're doing it all wrong from someone that made it to two events last year. C'mon man! :wink:

Personally, I think the courses last year kicked ass, despite botching it up behind the wheel at a couple and one that needed the 'reset' button to be hit to slow down a finish.

steve remchak wrote:

can we do that maybe just a little? do we really need a decreasing size slalom?

I can agree with this. When making a course, it's never a good thing to make tricky/deceptive elements that benefit the designers. Seriously, if it's course design that's the biggest hang-up, EC'ing is calling your name Steve. :toast:

JamesShort · **Posted:** Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:07 pm

Decreasing slaloms suck.....but increasing slaloms? :mrgreen:

I loved that one where after hitting entry speed, I could go WOT in the miata and get to the end on throttle. The s2000 probably has a bit too much power to do that unless the pacing goes up by 5 paces per instead of 2 paces

.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:12 pm

forgive me Matt, was not trying to imply that anyone is doing anything wrong. as Rodney said, yes i want ya'll to cater to me. i am the customer. OK, there is more than the usual amount of sarcasm in that statement.

but this is what i think i see here. less traffic on the forums than there used to be. it is mostly about 15 of us at best these days. back when i first joined there were 8 page threads the day after an event. not all of the feedback was positive but the membership was vocal.

so, either the courses have become boring and predictable or people are just tired of trying to change the way THSCC sets up its courses. i dunno?

maybe they are just tired of seeing my name in posts? i think i just passed VK in post count. :cheer:

JamesShort · **Posted:** Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:20 pm

Feedback is immaterial as it always comes from people who did not chair the event *AND* do not volunteer to chair future events.

Analogous to: If you don't vote (chair) then don't complain.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:24 pm

steve remchak wrote:

i disagree that the type of elements or the combination / duplication of elements in a tight space is a required evil.

Spoken like a person who has never helped setup an autox course at the sites we have. I'd encourage you to if not Chair and event, at least help on setup day to understand the constraints the designers deal with.

To borrow a phrase from a guy you might know

"Be the change you want to see"

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

As others have said, chair an event. It's easy enough to do, and you can show us how much more creative you can be than the rest of us. Ryan nailed it. If we had a gigantic square piece of pavement to work with, that didn't have any hazards, it would be a lot easier.

And there is nothing about a decreasing slalom that forbids it from being at an autocross. Part of the skill is walking the course and figuring out how to be fast on the first try. You only get a couple shots to be fast. Make them count. Not every course has to be all yee haw. I don't think any of our ECs from last year designed their courses to benefit their car, they tried to design something fun.

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