Autocross Event#7 NCCAR

JamesShort · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:16 am

Bernie Baake wrote:

Les Davis wrote:

JamesShort wrote:

All r comp shod cars got 5 if not 6 dry runs in

.

Um, not quite ALL r comp shod cars, I had exactly zero dry runs. :wink:

What he said.....although I wasn't on R comps all the little blue mini's runs was in the wet, at least for my six runs.

Ok guys, sorry. Let me rephrase: if you were the first car in line for heat 2, you might have got 4-5 dry runs. :mrgreen:

JamesShort · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:39 am

Jeremy Ellison wrote:

Lol, definitely uploaded the wrong video. Edited the original post to point to a run that I actually did well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wo97bWHFL0

From the first 'vee' offset to the turn around it sounded like you had 0 throttle input (and you weren't braking). That's going to cost you a lot of time. I understand it was wet-ish, but you have star specs and they could have handled those 2 elements with at least 50-75% throttle with a short burst of WOT right before the turn around even with some moisture on the ground.

Like Matt said, you were a bit late on the last half of the lane change. If you are going to be late, turn much earlier and put the foot on the floor and use the natural push to come out of the LC hauling ass

. That's what Ram and I did and it worked well.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:44 am

FWIW...it seems like you took a wide entry into the turnaround. IMO, I bet you could've been quicker if the line was tighter. Shorter distance = lower times, even if your speed through the turnaround was a tad slower than if you took the wider approach.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:51 am

Steven Carter wrote:

FWIW...it seems like you took a wide entry into the turnaround. IMO, I bet you could've been quicker if the line was tighter. Shorter distance = lower times, even if your speed through the turnaround was a tad slower than if you took the wider approach.

In Ram's powerless car, wider with a higher negotiation speed seemed faster since we could take the lane change near flat and from the exit of the LC to the 2nd of the 2 'vee' offsets (just prior to slalom) completely flat, we needed decent exit speed from the turn around. But you are probably right that an s2000 (particularly with the gearing of the AP2) could probably have stayed a bit tighter.

I just wish I was more confident shifting Ram's car to 3rd (and not hitting 5th) because we were on the limiter forever. Mazda competition motor mounts going in this winter

.

Carlton Whitehead · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:51 am

JamesShort wrote:

Like Matt said, you were a bit late on the last half of the lane change. If you are going to be late, turn much earlier and put the foot on the floor and use the natural push to come out of the LC hauling ass

. That's what Ram and I did and it worked well.

That might work in a Miata, but it's a recipe for snap oversteer in an S2000, or at least an AP1. Jason Watts was codriving my car yesterday and was doing exactly that. He nearly spun the car each time entering the crossover until I told him to start being more gentle on the throttle there.

Here's my fastest run from this event: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6DP3KWW48w

JamesShort · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:06 am

Carlton Whitehead wrote:

JamesShort wrote:

Like Matt said, you were a bit late on the last half of the lane change. If you are going to be late, turn much earlier and put the foot on the floor and use the natural push to come out of the LC hauling ass

. That's what Ram and I did and it worked well.

That might work in a Miata, but it's a recipe for snap oversteer in an S2000, or at least an AP1. Jason Watts was codriving my car yesterday and was doing exactly that. He nearly spun the car each time entering the crossover until I told him to start being more gentle on the throttle there.

Here's my fastest run from this event: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6DP3KWW48w

Ok, understandable (Jeremy is in an AP2) but when I said put the foot on the floor, I meant be a bit more generous with the throttle and turn early and naturally push out around the last cone of the final lane change element to have a longer accel zone. In a miata 'a bit more generous' means put the throttle on the floor

.

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:32 am

Carlton Whitehead wrote:

That might work in a Miata, but it's a recipe for snap oversteer in an S2000, or at least an AP1

Yeah dude, but it works wonderfully!
1. Induce snap oversteer
2. Catch rear end
3. ???
4. Profit!

Jeremy Ellison · **Joined:** Fri May 13, 2011 5:01 pm **Posts:** 186

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Matt, I'm not sure what you mean by "sweeping into the first of two "v" boxes", can you explain?

James, I see what you are saying. I definitely could've given the car some power between the 'vee' offsets and the turnaround. I was over cautious, as that's where I had spun 2 runs prior.

Steve, I'm definitely trying to figure out when it's beneficial to try and smooth out the line to cary speed and when it's better to keep it tight and get on the gas asap. I'll definitely keep this in mind for tighter turns in the future.

Looking at the video now is a lot more educational with a bit of commentary. I definitely see a lot of time left out there where I wasn't before. Thanks guys!

JamesShort · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:51 am

Jeremy Ellison wrote:

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Matt, I'm not sure what you mean by "sweeping into the first of two "v" boxes", can you explain?

James, I see what you are saying. I definitely could've given the car some power between the 'vee' offsets and the turnaround. I was over cautious, as that's where I had spun 2 runs prior.

Steve, I'm definitely trying to figure out when it's beneficial to try and smooth out the line to cary speed and when it's better to keep it tight and get on the gas asap. I'll definitely keep this in mind for tighter turns in the future.

Looking at the video now is a lot more educational with a bit of commentary. I definitely see a lot of time left out there where I wasn't before. Thanks guys!

Matt meant that shortly after the initial slalom, double cone gate, you encounter the first 'v-box'. You could have broke less if you stayed a bit to the right to straighten it out to carry a bit more speed to the second v-box.

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:59 am

Jeremy Ellison wrote:

Thanks for the feedback guys.

In all seriousness, I can't recommend strongly enough the importance of acquiring and reading Bentley's Speed Secrets book in its entirety (at least once): http://goo.gl/T4b0s :thumbsup:

It helped me improve a lot when I read it at a point when I had some solid experience under my belt (I think similar to the stage you are at) to really solidify and make sense of a lot of the core autox principals in my mind. I also learned where the biggest time gains were to be made up on the course. Another valuable tool to me was riding along with more experienced drivers and having them ride with me. Now, what was that you were saying about a co-drive? :-P

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:02 am

Yeah, I guess that was sort of weird wording. Basically what James said.

Sometimes we instinctively drive straight at an element in autocross which increases the amount of steering input to negotiate it once you're there. In this case sweeping out a bit to the right before entry, although it's a little longer distance, allowed a quicker exit and more momentum towards the next element and so on... Honestly, looking back I sort of did the same thing there too and at the gates before the final six cone slalom.

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

Zach Hill wrote:

Carlton Whitehead wrote:

That might work in a Miata, but it's a recipe for snap oversteer in an S2000, or at least an AP1

Yeah dude, but it works wonderfully!
1. Induce snap oversteer
2. Catch rear end
3. ???
4. Profit!

like

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:24 pm

Quick Questions:

1) Are the videos showing the course as dry as it got (i.e. two "dry" tracks)?

2) Is this course all the space currently available?

3) Kevin: What is the max mph for your second gear (since you shifted to third)?

Thanks,

Dick (fair weather autocrosser) :oops:

RobLupella · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:29 pm

JamesShort wrote:

Bernie Baake wrote:

Les Davis wrote:

Um, not quite ALL r comp shod cars, I had exactly zero dry runs. :wink:

What he said.....although I wasn't on R comps all the little blue mini's runs was in the wet, at least for my six runs.

Ok guys, sorry. Let me rephrase: if you were the first car in line for heat 2, you might have got 4-5 dry runs. :mrgreen:

Rephrase one more time to If you were the first car in line and didn't let your co-driver finish his runs and then did your remaining 3 you might.... :lol:

RobLupella · **Posted:** Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:37 pm

Jeremy Ellison wrote:

RobLupella wrote:

Jeremy Ellison wrote:

That was a blast! There was still a bunch of grip out there, though I definitely overstepped the limit a few times, which was a bit terrifying

I just posted my video from yesterday on youtube. I'd love some feedback, I know I'm leaving time out there, just not sure where.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCCpmtPhOoA

You lost a bit of time after the "Vee" when you did the extra 360 :lol:

You are a little late on slalom entry.

I did notice the courseworker was not running out of the way during your spin so you didn't scare him enough.

Depending upon your car's drive layout, (Rwd) you might want to try lifting a shade earlier for elements like the pivots right before the slalom to get the back end around. If you are awd or fwd disregard, I can't help much they don't drive right

Lol, definitely uploaded the wrong video. Edited the original post to point to a run that I actually did well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wo97bWHFL0

In addition to what the others said about sweeping a bit wider to be able to power out of the Vee's quicker it didn't seem like you were accellerating out of the elements so even when you were fully through the element you were still off throttle (at least from the sound) The whole reason to slow down the entry is to be able to power out sooner so make sure that you are back on throttle as soon as you are able to. That may not mean FULL throttle but at least part throttle.

And James if you really want to drive an underpowered Miata try mine. Ram's is a speedster relative to it.

THSCC Forums

Autocross Event#7 NCCAR

Who is online