NCCAR lessons learned

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2011 8:16 am

Is there any possibility to use more of the actual track? With some serious thinking about how to lay it out, is it possible to create a nice autox course using the track, running clock-wise, perhaps starting about where you did with this event? I keep thinking about the BMWCCA Oktoberfest in 2005 at VIR where Triad ran the autox for the national BMW event, and they setup the Patriot course with cones in such a way that an excellent autox course was created. Everybody loved it that I talked to at the event.

I'll post that pic I did in the NCCAR thread (http://www.thscc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=11305) again to plant the idea seed to see if has any potential meaning.

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2011 8:51 am

I love that idea and the only challenge I see (assuming we 'cone it down' speedwise) would be making sure folks cruised through the rest of the lap after they cross the timer.

Thanks again for the new desktop. Whoever took that shot of your M5 deserves a cold one. Fantastic shot!

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2011 8:59 am

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

Is there any possibility to use more of the actual track? With some serious thinking about how to lay it out, is it possible to create a nice autox course using the track, running clock-wise, perhaps starting about where you did with this event? I keep thinking about the BMWCCA Oktoberfest in 2005 at VIR where Triad ran the autox for the national BMW event, and they setup the Patriot course with cones in such a way that an excellent autox course was created. Everybody loved it that I talked to at the event.

I'll post that pic I did in the NCCAR thread (http://www.thscc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=11305) again to plant the idea seed to see if has any potential meaning.

In its current configuration, that's not really an option unless you want a 2.1 mile autox, which in itself may be interesting

. There are currently no other points of ingress/egress in regard to the track and front straight. That said, Sam True of NCCAR said they were considering tying the front straight back to the adjacent loop, so that would be an option once completed.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2011 9:03 am

Matt McGrain wrote:

I love that idea and the only challenge I see (assuming we 'cone it down' speedwise) would be making sure folks cruised through the rest of the lap after they cross the timer.

Thanks again for the new desktop. Whoever took that shot of your M5 deserves a cold one. Fantastic shot!

My wife took the picture. I have a bunch more and in full size/quality fwiw.

Regarding the return path, on the Patriot course the finish was just after the last very slow right turn, so the return to the pit was straightforward and hard for anyone to get in trouble. For NCCAR we'd have to deal with some turns and straights I suppose after the timing lights. An easy way to enforce the return would be to set cones as needed, and if you hit one of those cones on your return to the pits, you are disqualified for the event, no refund (see why perhaps I wasn't the most popular autox chairman a 1/4 century ago up in DC region BMWCCA?

).

Dustin Fredrickson · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2011 10:15 am

RodneyWright wrote:

In its current configuration, that's not really an option unless you want a 2.1 mile autox, which in itself may be interesting

. There are currently no other points of ingress/egress in regard to the track and front straight. That said, Sam True of NCCAR said they were considering tying the front straight back to the adjacent loop, so that would be an option once completed.

I couldn't make this event, but I'll submit my 1.5 cents.... At least for a non-EV shared event, and assuming it's available to us for the same rate, I'd think it a shame to not use more of the available pavement there. IMO, there's no reason that the finish couldn't be on the "loop" or in some other convenient spot, with a 1+ mile taxi back to the pits. Stipulate a strict (30mph) speed limit and strict "no passing on the taxi" rule. Even consider adding a worker assignment at the finish to queue up 6ish cars at a time, and send them back together so they "self regulate". Threaten to enforce with extreme prejudice. Anybody caught speeding should be removed from the event and forced to buy entry to the next HPDE

Regardless of the method, I don't think a long taxi should be the reason to not use more track.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2011 10:53 am

That's along the lines I was thinking too Dustin...very stern enforcement of speed on that return trip. We could possibly end the course on the "back straight" perhaps as that is diagonally across and in view of the VDA/grid area. Then there are only three turns on the return trip. This is of course going in the clockwise direction. Perhaps start the course right next to the current VDA/grid area.

Setting up a slalom down the middle of that 200+ degree turn would provide a challenge to everyone who's not done something like that before. I imagine people will hate it worse than a turnaround cone, but there is a straightforward method to attack such. It could be broken up into some element structure, then maybe 6-7 cone slalom and then another element, etc, as it is an awfully long turn (and actually a bit boring when driving the track). For those that were just there, there is a road that is not in this pic that connects directly to the VDA/grid now.

In this pic, you can see that back straight I'm referring to on the right side of the picture.

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2011 12:00 pm

*If* we used the track to avoid the often dreaded pivot cone, athough IMO they aren't bad if you just keep in perspective that it's a slow section for every car and you just need to be patient, although you can really hang yourself if you're greedy

, this is what I had in mind as a possibility with the red line indicating the finish, and of course it would be a straight path to the timer although it's technically on a constant radius turn.

The bus could actually be positioned between the start and finish, grid could be in the same spot as last time, plus everyone in grid and those working it would be able to see the vehicles returning around the unused portion of the track. In the hypothetical setup the new service road would basically be obsolete or maybe used for spectator traffic to the 'lookout hill' which I regret not trekking up to in order to get a neat perspective of the VSA area.

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2011 1:20 pm

Dustin Fredrickson wrote:

RodneyWright wrote:

In its current configuration, that's not really an option unless you want a 2.1 mile autox, which in itself may be interesting

. There are currently no other points of ingress/egress in regard to the track and front straight. That said, Sam True of NCCAR said they were considering tying the front straight back to the adjacent loop, so that would be an option once completed.

I couldn't make this event, but I'll submit my 1.5 cents.... At least for a non-EV shared event, and assuming it's available to us for the same rate, I'd think it a shame to not use more of the available pavement there. IMO, there's no reason that the finish couldn't be on the "loop" or in some other convenient spot, with a 1+ mile taxi back to the pits. Stipulate a strict (30mph) speed limit and strict "no passing on the taxi" rule. Even consider adding a worker assignment at the finish to queue up 6ish cars at a time, and send them back together so they "self regulate". Threaten to enforce with extreme prejudice. Anybody caught speeding should be removed from the event and forced to buy entry to the next HPDE

Regardless of the method, I don't think a long taxi should be the reason to not use more track.

I've been living in my corporate box too long. I like this idea and the pic that Matt proposed. I have a reply email I need to send to Simon. I'll add this pic of the proposed layout and see if he's cool w/ that configuration and what impact that has to pricing if any.

KendtEklund · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:29 pm **Posts:** 1204

Matt McGrain wrote:

*If* we used the track to avoid the often dreaded pivot cone, athough IMO they aren't bad if you just keep in perspective that it's a slow section for every car and you just need to be patient, although you can really hang yourself if you're greedy

, this is what I had in mind as a possibility with the red line indicating the finish, and of course it would be a straight path to the timer although it's technically on a constant radius turn.

The bus could actually be positioned between the start and finish, grid could be in the same spot as last time, plus everyone in grid and those working it would be able to see the vehicles returning around the unused portion of the track. In the hypothetical setup the new service road would basically be obsolete or maybe used for spectator traffic to the 'lookout hill' which I regret not trekking up to in order to get a neat perspective of the VSA area.

Me like!!!

I'll raise my hand to co-chair on this one

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2011 1:57 pm

Are we possibly going back there again this year?

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2011 2:02 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

Are we possibly going back there again this year?

Mr. President wrote:

I want to come back this fall, so I'd like to scrub one of the L-burg events and run here again. This will have to be a Saturday event as well.

Carl Fisher · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2011 2:34 pm

Quote:

Stupid question, but what is that huge concrete-looking area between the track and the building?

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2011 2:35 pm

Vincent Keene wrote:

Ryan Holton wrote:

Are we possibly going back there again this year?

Mr. President wrote:

I want to come back this fall, so I'd like to scrub one of the L-burg events and run here again. This will have to be a Saturday event as well.

/\ this.....

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2011 2:42 pm

Carl Fisher wrote:

Quote:

Stupid question, but what is that huge concrete-looking area between the track and the building?

That's actually the gravel lot we used as the paddock.

RobLupella · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2011 4:24 pm

RodneyWright wrote:

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

In its current configuration, that's not really an option unless you want a 2.1 mile autox, which in itself may be interesting

. .

That is a bad thing?

I too, think that the idea of a slalom element in a turn would be a different element. I also think this is separate from the pivot cone discussion and I am not a proponent of getting rid of pivot cones - they are just another element to deal with.

I'll host with Kendt.

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