FML SMH OMFG WTF......koni strikes again

JamesShort · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:34 am

Aaron, you know what's funny? When you drove me from the bus to my car in the pits at Sanford to get you those parts, I heard it

and thought the same thing.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:44 pm

Ironically, I just heard from TC Kline about the TKC Koni top-adjust E46 rears I sent back to them for clunking (after about 30k miles of use) back in January. Koni did not want to rebuild them (I assume they looked at them and decided not to rebuild?) but are instead replacing them with new shocks which are on the boat right now and should be here in ~2 weeks. Hopefully these new ones will be quiet for at least 30k miles like the others.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:56 pm

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

Ironically, I just heard from TC Kline about the TKC Koni top-adjust E46 rears I sent back to them for clunking (after about 30k miles of use) back in January. Koni did not want to rebuild them (I assume they looked at them and decided not to rebuild?) but are instead replacing them with new shocks which are on the boat right now and should be here in ~2 weeks. Hopefully these new ones will be quiet for at least 30k miles like the others.

Hi Chuck, I forgot your story but did you go through the whole run around with Koni where they tell you that there is no chance the clunking is internal and that you installed them wrong or the mounts are bad or the top nut is loose? Are you convinced it is due to internal issues? Despite the noise did they seem to work properly?

Here is my video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXHb7L_X ... rofilepage

1:48
2:01
2:45

I sent Lee a picture of the top and bottom washers that sandwich the rubber mounts about the chassis with the metal cylinder between it all. There are detents showing due to the nut being tight enough to press the metal cylinder hard enough into the top/bottom washers to deform the cheap-o washers Koni provides so they can't claim the install error or top nut not being tight enough.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:03 pm

No, I had no issues with Koni coming back to me at all. The top mounts were (are) TCK's Buna rubber specials, and are in perfect shape. The clunking was clearly internal to the shocks, and one was much louder than the other one. FWIW, I've had Konis on the M5 now for about 6 years with no issues (probably about only 25k miles of use though). Prior to that, I have to go all the way back to the 1980s where we put them on my wife's E28 535i right about the time adjustable Konis first came on the market...10+ years and ~100k miles with no issues. Other cars in the interim I've used Bilsteins...

Yeah, as far as I could tell, they seemed to function ok with the clunking.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:09 pm

I would say the E46 clunking was similar to that in your video. Many bumps were handled fine, especially large amplitude low to medium frequency bumps. It was ONLY on the high to very high frequency bumps, generally of course these are small amplitude, where the clunking was prevalent. It took me a while to figure out what the heck was making the noise as I didn't suspect the shocks at first.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:13 pm

My last ditch effort to see if it is internal or external is to do what Donnie's guys did to his e46 and take the metal cylinder that goes through the rear top mount and shorten it on a lathe. Then when you torque the top nut down, the rubber has to precompress more before you get washer-cylinder-washer contact.

I'm still about 80% sure it's internal given all the diagnostics and 5 times of reinstalling with various permutations of thin rubber washers between the top mount parts.

Still odd that the noise is not as bad at HIGH rebound settings. Seems like it would be dead opposite (see Cash's post early in the thread).

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:25 pm

The best test for me was that the severity of the clunking varied with temperature (from very cold, i.e. 30F, to operating temperatures). Here's what I wrote in the other thread:

Quote:

Tia (my wife) and I went to a movie for the first time in months (thanks Netflix), and as we were coming out to the car in the cold, she said this would be a good time for them to make a lot more noise, right? I'm like, um, well, yeah I suppose since it has cold soaked for a couple of hours in 30F temps, the viscosity will be high, so I guess (not *really* thinking it would make much of a difference). We had set them on 2 full turns off full soft on the way to the theater just to see if that affected the noise which it didn't really.

Well, for the first 2-3 miles they were knocking much louder than on the way over there, and after 4-5 miles it was not nearly as loud...back to the "normal" knock more or less which we supposed was due to them warming up, oil viscosity decreasing some, etc.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:27 pm

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

I would say the E46 clunking was similar to that in your video. Many bumps were handled fine, especially large amplitude low to medium frequency bumps. It was ONLY on the high to very high frequency bumps, generally of course these are small amplitude, where the clunking was prevalent. It took me a while to figure out what the heck was making the noise as I didn't suspect the shocks at first.

Yes! Low amp, high freq is the key. Manhole covers are the best test. My neighborhood started building in 2008 so we don't have our top coat of asphalt down so it's a damper testing ground

.

It's even worse if you are braking while going over said disturbances given the rear suspension is less loaded due to weight xfer. Mostly at slow vehicle speeds, granted, that could be due to road/air noise at higher vehicle speeds.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:41 pm

So Koni has my first set of rear shocks on an 06 Si Coupe right now and after 300+ miles, no noise.

They have never tested these on a sedan. Granted there shouldn't be much if any difference but the fact remains they never tested on a sedan.

Here's a new video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhfK0e3qPpQ

I reinstalled the OE shocks again, still no noise....I even undertorqued everything (retorqued them after a short test drive).

Might try getting some e46 shocks on the car to see if I can replicate it with different dampers (probably have a lot more bump damping that the civic shocks).

And also, with the shocks off the car, the OE shocks seem to have a lot more compression damping than the Koni's. I know it's not a very good test as piston speeds generated by hand are probably less than 1 in/s or so.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

This is likely irrelevant to your situation, but I had to torque the HELL out of the lower shock bolt to reduce a clunking noise on my mazda. I'm not sure what the torque spec was or is on my car, but I just went gorilla on it and it doesn't rattle at all. That rattle occurred in the same conditions (high freq/low amp).

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:35 pm

BriceJohnson wrote:

This is likely irrelevant to your situation, but I had to torque the HELL out of the lower shock bolt to reduce a clunking noise on my mazda. I'm not sure what the torque spec was or is on my car, but I just went gorilla on it and it doesn't rattle at all. That rattle occurred in the same conditions (high freq/low amp).

Brice!

From a mechanical engineer even! :shock:

By HELL I assume you think (hope) you didn't locally yield the bolt threads...

JamesShort · **Posted:** Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:53 pm

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

BriceJohnson wrote:

This is likely irrelevant to your situation, but I had to torque the HELL out of the lower shock bolt to reduce a clunking noise on my mazda. I'm not sure what the torque spec was or is on my car, but I just went gorilla on it and it doesn't rattle at all. That rattle occurred in the same conditions (high freq/low amp).

Brice!

From a mechanical engineer even! :shock:

By HELL I assume you think (hope) you didn't locally yield the bolt threads...

On the OE dampers I undertorqued the lower bolt (40 ftlb instead of 50 ftlb) just for shits and giggles (no noise). With the Koni installed, I overtorqued it to 55 ftlb. Maybe I should have gone higher. The upper control arm to knuckle bolt is also M12 grade 10 and it's torque value is 80 ftlb.

Brice did your rattle/clunk sound similar? And if so, is your LCA double shear like mine?

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

I haven't heard your rattle, so I can't really say. I can say with pretty good confidence that I torqued it to more than 55 ft-lbs though.

The connection is indeed double shear, yes. I was guessing that the excessive torque I applied may have just bent the sheet metal piece in a bit to mate up with the shock eye bushing a bit tighter, and that quieted it down. I dunno.

Chuck, guilty as charged (sometimes maids have the dirtiest houses. . .), but I'm pretty sure I couldn't yield the threads on that large of a bolt without a breaker bar. I just applied the most torque I could on my 1/2" drive ratchet, which was probably 70-ish ft lbs if I had to guess, given the akward angle I was working at.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:01 pm

E46 Bilstein HDs on order

.

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:45 am

JamesShort wrote:

E46 Bilstein HDs on order

.

No luck with getting things straightened out with Koni?

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