Autocross Tech info

KendtEklund · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:29 pm **Posts:** 1204

Just a quick note on tech this year - no big changes, just some reminders:

- Roving tech will be like normal up until the close of registration (15min before drivers meeting)
After that, we'll do tech in front of my pit space (my smurf-mobile is easy to find - pic below)
- Helmets will be checked this year with the change in ratings - they must be M/SA2000 or newer
We will have small neon green "THSCC AX" stickers to put on your helmet once (left side where starter can see).
Please leave your helmet out in the car if you want it checked while you aren't there
- Take advantage of Annual Tech (if you are not a Novice) - it is really nice to roll in and get your sticker at the gate
http://www.thscc.com/autocross/forms/axannualtech.pdf <- make sure you check the items EVERY event
Saves us time, too :mrgreen:

We will try to send this info out as an email to registrants as well to help streamline the process.

Be safe out there! :thumbsup:

If you need to find me - I'm short and don't stand out, but you can't miss my car :lol:

-

NOTE - we are aware the annual tech form says "DOT rated, M2000 recommended". We will have that clarified by the first points event.

JasonWatts · **Posted:** Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:37 pm

Kent,

any idea where I can find this M2000 sticker on my helmets? I know where to find the DOT sticker (have to be fairly blind to not find it), but I cannot recall ever seeing one of these on any of the helmets I have ever looked at. Then again, I have also only ever looked for DOT or SNELL stickers.

Personal opinion is if a DOT approved helmet is designed to protect your head against other car's as well as asphalt at 60+mph speeds, it should be able to handle a steering wheel at autocross speeds... that being said, i will oblige what the rule book says. I also don’t agree with open face helmets… but that’s more so from a motorcycle standpoint and not SOLO racing

JamesShort · **Posted:** Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:45 pm

JasonWatts wrote:

Kent,

any idea where I can find this M2000 sticker on my helmets? I know where to find the DOT sticker (have to be fairly blind to not find it), but I cannot recall ever seeing one of these on any of the helmets I have ever looked at. Then again, I have also only ever looked for DOT or SNELL stickers.

Personal opinion is if a DOT approved helmet is designed to protect your head against other car's as well as asphalt at 60+mph speeds, it should be able to handle a steering wheel at autocross speeds... that being said, i will oblige what the rule book says. I also don’t agree with open face helmets… but that’s more so from a motorcycle standpoint and not SOLO racing

The snell cert is hiding behind the liner on the inside of the helmet. Will be a fancy shiny red/orange/brown.

KendtEklund · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:29 pm **Posts:** 1204

JasonWatts wrote:

Kent,

any idea where I can find this M2000 sticker on my helmets? I know where to find the DOT sticker (have to be fairly blind to not find it), but I cannot recall ever seeing one of these on any of the helmets I have ever looked at. Then again, I have also only ever looked for DOT or SNELL stickers.

Personal opinion is if a DOT approved helmet is designed to protect your head against other car's as well as asphalt at 60+mph speeds, it should be able to handle a steering wheel at autocross speeds... that being said, i will oblige what the rule book says. I also don’t agree with open face helmets… but that’s more so from a motorcycle standpoint and not SOLO racing

M2000 would be the Snell sticker - somewhere inside the helmet probably.

I think it is also a question of helmet age, not just the actual standards - shell materials and liners can break down over time. Also remember that you can get DOT helmets from JC Whitney - I'm not sure DOT is all I'd want on my helmet.

You may think 'who really needs a helmet in AX?' - I have seen a car flip over in a rapid transition - no mechanical failure, only from tire grip.

Like I said - this will get clarified before the points event.

JasonWatts · **Posted:** Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:12 pm

James, Kent,

Thanks for the clarification. I never knew snell{version} = m{version} If we go this route, I will likely be out the first few events until I can purchase a snell helmet. (far from the clubs fault... just sayin is all)

Kent, I realize we dont know each other overly well. That being said, I do find it annoying to have to put one on, but I also feel naked without it when I am running at 100% in my car, or any time I hop on my bike.

I do trust some DOT helmets. However, that is because some DOT helmets do exceed the min requirements set forth by DOT.

KendtEklund · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:29 pm **Posts:** 1204

JasonWatts wrote:

James, Kent,

Thanks for the clarification. I never knew snell{version} = m{version} If we go this route, I will likely be out the first few events until I can purchase a snell helmet. (far from the clubs fault... just sayin is all)

Kent, I realize we dont know each other overly well. That being said, I do find it annoying to have to put one on, but I also feel naked without it when I am running at 100% in my car, or any time I hop on my bike.

I do trust some DOT helmets. However, that is because some DOT helmets do exceed the min requirements set forth by DOT.

Why would you be out? Buy a headsock for a few bucks and borrow a club helmet.

No worries

- 'you may think' wasn't directed at *you* specifically, just wanted to make the point to everyone out there.
I wasn't trying to make it seem like I thought you were cavalier about safety :thumbsup:

Michael Westerfield · **Posted:** Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:25 pm

JasonWatts wrote:

If we go this route, I will likely be out the first few events until I can purchase a snell helmet. (far from the clubs fault... just sayin is all)

Just travel the road of shame and use one of the club's orange sweat buckets til you can afford a proper helmet.

JasonWatts · **Posted:** Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:30 pm

Michael Westerfield wrote:

JasonWatts wrote:

If we go this route, I will likely be out the first few events until I can purchase a snell helmet. (far from the clubs fault... just sayin is all)

Just travel the road of shame and use one of the club's orange sweat buckets til you can afford a proper helmet.

Sorry, I don't believe in open face Helmets and refuse to use one. ( I also believe in free choice and will never question someone elses choice to use one.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:49 pm

If you see how frequently Jason spins out, you'd know why he wants a closed face helmet.

Jason I might want to get rid of my m2005 full face in favor (ironically) and open face. Would you be interested?

Fyi I'd comfortably say a full face DOT is less safe than an open face Snell M/SA.

KendtEklund · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:29 pm **Posts:** 1204

JamesShort wrote:

If you see how frequently Jason spins out, you'd know why he wants a closed face helmet.

Jason I might want to get rid of my m2005 full face in favor (ironically) and open face. Would you be interested?

Fyi I'd comfortably say a full face DOT is less safe than an open face Snell M/SA.

Jason -
You may also want to put up a WTB for a SA2000 full face - you can probably get someone's expired track helmet for a few bucks and a six-pack (if the person selling wants to rip you off :wink:

)
A good shampooing of the liner and a warm day outside and you are good to go.

JasonWatts · **Posted:** Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:11 pm

Kendt, James,

I thank you both for the advice. I also have money issues that are going to mess up the start of my season (unless jessie is able to get a job soon). That being said, I appreciate the offers and suggestions and will definently consider them depending on how the club moves on this.

James, I understand what you are saying. I think what your statements about “DOT approved” is also a generalization. I know I wouldn’t trust my life in the hands of a Fulmer helmet. I know this, because I own one and it makes a very pretty ornament. However, I think the best DOT only approved helmet that I have owned is my KBC. Just by looking at the two, you can clearly see the quality is different. I have also wrecked in this helmet. The back of my head slammed directly into the ground with very little glancing at an estimated 30mph plus whatever the "whip” factor added to the momentum. if it was the fulmer, I would probably would not have walked away from it (but I would have walked again most likely). My point with this, is DOT doesn’t always mean pure crap. If you do research, you can find some very high quality DOT helmets. Some manufactures even admit to not seeking out SNELL approval to save on costs their initial year (could also be marketing to play it off some). And, in reverse to this, my Dainese helmet doesn’t have DOT approval. However, the crash protection is significantly better then DOT ratings. again, Dainese simply doesn’t care about the US market... they make a lot more money over in Europe. All this simply boils down to if I am going to buy a helmet and have no rules dictating what I am going to buy, I will do my research on what I am buying and do believe that some DOT only helmets will protect my head.

In reference to full face vs not... lets see how well an open face snell protects your nose and chin compared to a DOT approved full face. I honestly think this is an argument more so of full face vs 3/4 helmets... and SNELL/DOT play little into that argument. (I also think my street/motorcycle experience has a major influence on me for this argument.

ps. If you want to get into a snell vs DOT approved helmets debate, there was an article published awhile back arguing that SNELL approved helmets are "overly protective" and can also cause injury. Let me know and I will start looking around and see if I can find it.

PPS. Please don’t anything think I am arguing against safety with any of the above. I am actually arguing for it. I just don’t think simply stating ALL DOT = bad and ALL snell = perfect. I think research needs to be done on any helmet if you are going trust it to save your life in a certain situation.

KendtEklund · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:29 pm **Posts:** 1204

JasonWatts wrote:

ps. If you want to get into a snell vs DOT approved helmets debate, there was an article published awhile back arguing that SNELL approved helmets are "overly protective" and can also cause injury. Let me know and I will start looking around and see if I can find it.

I remember this - there was an argument that the shock requirements of the Snell rating required liners stiff enough that they actually caused a higher shock in Gs to the head/brain.

The other side if the coin is - we know a Snell rating meets a reasonable safety standard - if all we see is DOT, that is no guarantee that it is a quality helmet.

Best of luck with everything, and hope you can make it to the events!

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:01 am

JasonWatts wrote:

However, I think the best DOT only approved helmet that I have owned is my KBC.

Take a look behind the liner of your KBC. I believe they have been Snell certified for quite some time. That might be why it seems better built than your Fulmer.

I don't understand you refusal to wear an open face for autocross. You are going no faster than you would on the highway and I'm sure you don't wear a helmet during your commute to work. Right? I switched from a full face M helmet to an open SA and am extremely happy. Sitting in line waiting for your run and sweating in your brain bucket is extremely uncomfortable. At least with the open face you can catch any breeze that might be blowing that day, or you can direct the air conditioning towards your face and cool off.

Just my $.0000000002

JamesShort · **Posted:** Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:22 am

Todd Breakey wrote:

JasonWatts wrote:

However, I think the best DOT only approved helmet that I have owned is my KBC.

Take a look behind the liner of your KBC. I believe they have been Snell certified for quite some time. That might be why it seems better built than your Fulmer.

I don't understand you refusal to wear an open face for autocross. You are going no faster than you would on the highway and I'm sure you don't wear a helmet during your commute to work. Right? I switched from a full face M helmet to an open SA and am extremely happy. Sitting in line waiting for your run and sweating in your brain bucket is extremely uncomfortable. At least with the open face you can catch any breeze that might be blowing that day, or you can direct the air conditioning towards your face and cool off.

Just my $.0000000002

Those are two of the reasons I want to get rid of my full face for an open face. Plus you can wear sun glasses with an open face and its easier to look ahead.

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:57 am

As comfortable as my Impact Racing helmet is, I often consider picking up a second, open face helmet just for autocross purposes. I figure I'd be better able to see whatever cones I'm about to set on fire.

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