Koni woes

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:02 pm

I still can't figure out what you people are doing to your Konis. Mine are four years old and work great. And they haven't exactly had an easy life.

Michael Westerfield · **Posted:** Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:17 pm

Karl Shultz wrote:

I still can't figure out what you people are doing to your Konis. Mine are four years old and work great. And they haven't exactly had an easy life.

You have a double A-arm car.

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:48 pm

Aaron Buckley wrote:

I see it as an anomaly. You bought a set of used shocks and are still bitter that they wouldn't warrantee them.

- AB

You people should get your facts straight.

I blew TWO sets of konis. One new set and one used set. One set was rallycrossed on, one was not. They both had the same failure symptoms. KONI claimed the shafts were bent, and wouldn't even discuss possibilities of how that could happen. They were just REAL adament that the struts could not handle the loads placed on them by r-comps.

I sold one set, that was "supposedly" bent, to a guy that worked at a motorcycle shop. He rebuilt them and used them for a while before they suffered the same failure. Don't ask me how he rebuilt them since no one else seems to be able to.

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:50 pm

Karl Shultz wrote:

I still can't figure out what you people are doing to your Konis. Mine are four years old and work great. And they haven't exactly had an easy life.

Karl, there is a HUGE difference between the loads placed on a strut and the loads placed on a shock. Granted, I think Art blew one of his shocks and not his front struts? My failures were all in the front struts.

Also, to be fair, I really don't think KONI makes a bad product. I think their service and their tech support are horrible at best, which is why I dislike them so much.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:00 pm

Jason Mauldin wrote:

You people should get your facts straight.

I blew TWO sets of konis. One new set and one used set. One set was rallycrossed on, one was not. They both had the same failure symptoms. KONI claimed the shafts were bent, and wouldn't even discuss possibilities of how that could happen. They were just REAL adament that the struts could not handle the loads placed on them by r-comps.

I sold one set, that was "supposedly" bent, to a guy that worked at a motorcycle shop. He rebuilt them and used them for a while before they suffered the same failure. Don't ask me how he rebuilt them since no one else seems to be able to.

I never claimed it as a fact. The good thing is that you aren't still bitter after 5 years.

That said, if Konis sucked so much, why do people continue to buy them? No one in autocross/track wants to go out and by KYB AGX's or Tokicos Illuminas, mainly because Koni put out a better product.

Besides, what does it matter to you, it's not like you autocross anymore :twisted:

- AB

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:03 pm

Aaron Buckley wrote:

That said, if Konis sucked so much, why do people continue to buy them? No one in autocross/track wants to go out and by KYB AGX's or Tokicos Illuminas, mainly because Koni put out a better product.

Because those other products suck more. :twisted:

I've said it before, when KONIs work, they work really well. (see, I'm not a complete hater)

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

I liked the ride quality with my Konis, and the cars I had them on handled at least as well as they did with AGX struts, although the autox results were about the same with either brand. I didn't like that two pairs of Koni rears died on me. One pair from rallyxing, one pair from driving around on the street and autoxing for several months. I'll never buy another set of them, because of their extreme lack of robustness.

I've never killed a KYB AGX or a Tokico DSpec. Konis are just overpriced crap, from my experience.

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

Jason Mauldin wrote:

Karl Shultz wrote:

I still can't figure out what you people are doing to your Konis. Mine are four years old and work great. And they haven't exactly had an easy life.

Karl, there is a HUGE difference between the loads placed on a strut and the loads placed on a shock. Granted, I think Art blew one of his shocks and not his front struts? My failures were all in the front struts.

Also, to be fair, I really don't think KONI makes a bad product. I think their service and their tech support are horrible at best, which is why I dislike them so much.

The lesson here, avoid McStrut suspensions. I own three cars without a McStrut between them and have had zero damper problems. Of course I've also never owned a Koni product....

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:10 am

I'm with Karl, we've had koni shocks on all our autocross cars for the last six years. We've never had a failure. Our cars have had McPhearson struts, coil overs and double A arm suspensions. And I'd dare to say we have auto-xed more than most folks (thscc,triad, ncr,scca etc.) with two drivers,18 to twenty times a year. Then throw in twenty track days a year, and a few time trials. ZERO failures, whats not to like. Or is you folks are extremely unlucky?????

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:22 am

Bernie Baake wrote:

I'm with Karl, we've had koni shocks on all our autocross cars for the last six years. We've never had a failure. Our cars have had McPhearson struts, coil overs and double A arm suspensions. And I'd dare to say we have auto-xed more than most folks (thscc,triad, ncr,scca etc.) with two drivers,18 to twenty times a year. Then throw in twenty track days a year, and a few time trials. ZERO failures, whats not to like. Or is you folks are extremely unlucky?????

Yeah, nobody knows the true failure rate as a percentage of sales nor the percentage of strut failures versus shock failures all normalized to mileage and use, etc. I take all of this as just supposition, which it is, since there is no hard data.

As I mentioned up above, I've been using Konis on numerous cars (all with at least front struts fwiw) since the 1970s, and this is the first time I've had a failure or warranty claim. Years ago I had a Bilstein strut failure but thought nothing of it at the time (and it was covered under warranty).

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

Add me as a data point who thinks "when they work, they work great, but they are fragile and clearly not a robust manufacturing process".

I had a leaky adjuster on my OTS Koni's right out of the box. It was replaced unduer warranty. Now the other side is starting to leak a bit, and I'll probably have to get IT replaced too (the rears have been fine, the struts are what has failed for me).

They are GREAT though, I love the way they perform (granted, my comparison is 100k old stock shocks, so anything would probably be great).

I'm on the fence as to whether I'll buy another set or go with another brand for my next car.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:46 am

One thing I know...chances are better than not that you're going to need service on aftermarket dampers no matter what the brand or even how you use them. Sure, there's always the outliers, but more than half will need service. Period. End of story.

So then the question is what service situation are you willing to take your chances with? In SOME cases I've used Koni and would again, but mostly for their OTS single adjustable shocks or inserts. NEVER for DAs, that's for sure (just based on my own experience). In most cases, I'd rather have a monotube Moton or Ohlins or Penske, both because they perform better and because they are MUCH easier to get serviced.

--Donnie

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:07 am

On the strut vs. double a-arm designs, I am curious as to if it is an issue with the shaft diameter/material or something else? I mention this as I used OTC Koni SA on my Civic (double a-arm) for years before they wore out. I am not finished with the 914 yet, but it and the 911 share the same front end design and Koni was an OEM provider for the 911.

I currently have a set of OTC Koni SA ready to be installed in the 914 and the difference in shaft diameter between the Civic and Porsche Koni products is huge. On top of that, I don't think I remember hearing of people in the 911/914 community complaining about Koni products from a failure point of view. I think the complains I see on the forums are more about DOA or lack of consistency with respect to performance from one unit to the next. Even then those are not common.

I guess my point is... I wonder if not all OTC Koni strut specific designs are equal?

JamesShort · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:29 am

Kevin Allen wrote:

I liked the ride quality with my Konis, and the cars I had them on handled at least as well as they did with AGX struts, although the autox results were about the same with either brand. I didn't like that two pairs of Koni rears died on me. One pair from rallyxing, one pair from driving around on the street and autoxing for several months. I'll never buy another set of them, because of their extreme lack of robustness.

I've never killed a KYB AGX or a Tokico DSpec. Konis are just overpriced crap, from my experience.

Glad, I don't have struts in the rear. Seems the GC/GD damper problems have all been on the rears regardless of what brand. And the stiction issue on inverted STI struts seem isolated to the rear as well. The suspension geometry much be such that there is a lot more lateral force on the damper shafts in the rear of those chassis than the fronts.

David Teague · **Posted:** Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:15 am

Kevin Allen wrote:

I liked the ride quality with my Konis, and the cars I had them on handled at least as well as they did with AGX struts, although the autox results were about the same with either brand. I didn't like that two pairs of Koni rears died on me. One pair from rallyxing, one pair from driving around on the street and autoxing for several months. I'll never buy another set of them, because of their extreme lack of robustness.

I've never killed a KYB AGX or a Tokico DSpec. Konis are just overpriced crap, from my experience.

I killed 1 front and 1 rear KYB agx on my Double A Arm Del Sol after 2 years of autocrossing on them. When strait to a set of used Koni Sports, and I noticed a difference in how the car performed on course. Oh Yea and my yellows now are probably at least 5 years old and no problems.

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