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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:06 pm 
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JamesShort wrote:
Haha, Zach, you will be NXC now. Star specs are 2 point tires as of today :).


Clearly, you win the internets of the day.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:33 pm 
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Gah I have pager duty this weekend otherwise I'd go. :(


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:22 pm 
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Zach Hill wrote:
JamesShort wrote:
Haha, Zach, you will be NXC now. Star specs are 2 point tires as of today :).


Clearly, you win the internets of the day.
When I saw jon's email and saw the part about star specs, I was like great I'm probably getting bumped to B ;).

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:12 am 
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Impressions (prepare for rant):

Ok so if you were following the thread in Club Discussion that Graham started, Jim Pastorious brought up THSCC's communication and I agreed and mentioned how Jon Felton at NASA does a great job about communicating: whether it be to pass entrants about up coming events, or to currently registered people with updates, schedules, rule changes, FYIs etc.

So that's about where the positive things end unfortunately. I'm trying to keep this as objective as possibly and not bring the bitter cold into affecting my comments :).

1. They do NOT have their sh** together when it comes to timing equipment...it looks like their cables and equipment is from the stone age and it took 6 runs (per car) of the first heat before they even got it working.....hey people, the event didn't start till noon and they were setting the course up at 8 am...they could have tested it.
2. The course was not 'walkable' until 10:15 am. I got there at 8:30 with intention of getting 4-5 walks given it was slated to be a BIG course
3. Radio communication would NOT copy calls and they wanted us to say which station you are at when calling in, which added (IMO) unnecessary radio traffic....walk up participants were required to have number between 900-999...most of these participants were novices and in NASA they run in numerical order according to car number and radio communication was absurd and no copys didn't help
4. Course was really good/fun except for the very very end. Given the course setup, they wanted to have a slow finish because it aimed towards the grid at the end. This is COMPLETELY reasonable. But the way they had it was like half a Cbox that was so tight that you negotiated it at like 5 mph and most people chugged across the finish line. I mean, the Minis had trouble with it. It wasn't about driving skillfully and driving the right line either, it was purely forcing you to go from 55+ to 5-7 mph and just dribbling across the line (except for the TTU C6 Z06 track car :) ). I personally would have preferred them end the course 20s back than what they did.
5. Since they had so much trouble with radio communication and timing, the novices could not get ride alongs by instructors and with 30/75 entrants as novice, it caused a LOT of DNFs.....oh excuse me....'off courses' (they gave me crap about calling them DNFs on the radio)....there was 2 locations on course that crossed back over the course...one was a half figure eight and the other was a 'skid pad' that you negotiate and when you go 360 degrees, then you continue going straight....so not only were there a lot of DNFs, there were half a dozen red flags due to people getting lost or faster cars catching up with slower cars....the people at start did not pay attention to which cars they may have to hold start up for (which I feel is an inherent responsibility of the start worker)


So after what, 7 pages in that thread in Club Discussion, I realize from an organizational and infrastructure standpoint, THSCC is in pretty good shape relative to what I saw yesterday :).

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:56 am 
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JamesShort wrote:
...one was a half figure eight and the other was a 'skid pad' that you negotiate and when you go 360 degrees, then you continue going straight....


I had the twisted idea of doing this at the Zoombies setup. I don't know what triggered it since I drive a fwd econobox. :twisted:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:39 pm 
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JamesShort wrote:
...So after what, 7 pages in that thread in Club Discussion, I realize from an organizational and infrastructure standpoint, THSCC is in pretty good shape relative to what I saw yesterday :).


Um, yea, I wouldn't use NASA as a shining example on how to run *anything* on event day. I know Jon works his butt off but they have one of the worst run event day operations I've ever seen. By far.

If you want to see some better out-of-state examples, SCR, DC and Atlanta are generally excellent come event day. SCR is a small region but they are very pro-active in trying to improve their product and it shows at their events. Their sites aren't that great but it could be worth the trip down there one time just to check them out.

And if you are really interested in seeing what others are doing on a larger scale but still close to home, put the SCR/CCR Michelin Black Lake event(s) on your calendar. Those events usually draw 170+ and they can take on the feel of a Divisional or Tour.

Jim


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:45 pm 
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Good to know Jim, thanks. Maybe I misinterpreted some comments about NASA autox but it seemed that the sentiment is dead opposite of what I experienced yesterday.

I've heard a lot of great things about the Black Lake event. Might have to try to make it this year.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:08 pm 
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JamesShort wrote:
walk up participants were required to have number between 900-999...most of these participants were novices and in NASA they run in numerical order according to car number...


I'm sure people in other clubs have complaints about the way we run things as well, but that system (running in order) is terrible. Ryan and I ran an event with NASA a few years back and they had a sh*t-fit if you weren't ready to run in the exact order. I think we were adjusting tire pressures at the time and our not being ready at the exact moment was screwing up their whole timing system. :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:14 pm 
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Vincent Keene wrote:
JamesShort wrote:
walk up participants were required to have number between 900-999...most of these participants were novices and in NASA they run in numerical order according to car number...


I'm sure people in other clubs have complaints about the way we run things as well, but that system (running in order) is terrible. Ryan and I ran an event with NASA a few years back and they had a sh*t-fit if you weren't ready to run in the exact order. I think we were adjusting tire pressures at the time and our not being ready at the exact moment was screwing up their whole timing system. :roll:
I agree, and my greater point with this system is that if statistically, walk-ups tend to have a greater proportion of novices (which it clearly did yesterday), when you get towards the end of a cycle of cars, you are going to have a ton of 900-999 novices on course one after the other after the other and start HAS to be cognizant of this during launching but were not.

One car had mechanical issues and pulled out on the side to check things out and that just wreaked havoc on their system.

Note that I didn't say THSCC is perfect, but on a relative basis, I think we have pretty good organization/infrastructure going on compared to NASA. Particularly in the context to all the 'hatin' that is going on in the Club Discussion threads :).

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:20 pm 
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JamesShort wrote:
Note that I didn't say THSCC is perfect, but on a relative basis, I think we have pretty good organization/infrastructure going on compared to NASA. Particularly in the context to all the 'hatin' that is going on in the Club Discussion threads :).


I agree, but we have had over 45 years of tweaking to get it right.

Just imagine the havoc if two cars showed up with the same number...in 10 classes! Our T&S folks deal with it like clockwork with hardly any issues. If we ran every car with a different number in numerical order we could probably get by with a monkey and dry-erase board. :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:21 pm 
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I think the "hatin'" is a disproportionate representation, but that may be only me...certainly some constructive criticism, though.

Sounds like the worthwhile take-aways are:
--email contact with current and prior drivers (members or not) is a good idea
--perhaps THSCC should have more of a web 2.0 presence (there's a post on there from 1/15 asking about 2011 schedule...with no response.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:43 pm 
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James, did you stay for the end? Did they post any times? Out of 7 runs i was only timed on the last 2, but I only got the last time (since i drove past the guy giving out times)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:51 pm 
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JamesShort wrote:
Impressions (prepare for rant):

1. They do NOT have their sh** together when it comes to timing equipment...it looks like their cables and equipment is from the stone age and it took 6 runs (per car) of the first heat before they even got it working.....hey people, the event didn't start till noon and they were setting the course up at 8 am...they could have tested it.
2. The course was not 'walkable' until 10:15 am. I got there at 8:30 with intention of getting 4-5 walks given it was slated to be a BIG course
3. Radio communication would NOT copy calls and they wanted us to say which station you are at when calling in, which added (IMO) unnecessary radio traffic....walk up participants were required to have number between 900-999...most of these participants were novices and in NASA they run in numerical order according to car number and radio communication was absurd and no copys didn't help
4. Course was really good/fun except for the very very end. Given the course setup, they wanted to have a slow finish because it aimed towards the grid at the end. This is COMPLETELY reasonable. But the way they had it was like half a Cbox that was so tight that you negotiated it at like 5 mph and most people chugged across the finish line. I mean, the Minis had trouble with it. It wasn't about driving skillfully and driving the right line either, it was purely forcing you to go from 55+ to 5-7 mph and just dribbling across the line (except for the TTU C6 Z06 track car :) ). I personally would have preferred them end the course 20s back than what they did.
5. Since they had so much trouble with radio communication and timing, the novices could not get ride alongs by instructors and with 30/75 entrants as novice, it caused a LOT of DNFs.....oh excuse me....'off courses' (they gave me crap about calling them DNFs on the radio)....there was 2 locations on course that crossed back over the course...one was a half figure eight and the other was a 'skid pad' that you negotiate and when you go 360 degrees, then you continue going straight....so not only were there a lot of DNFs, there were half a dozen red flags due to people getting lost or faster cars catching up with slower cars....the people at start did not pay attention to which cars they may have to hold start up for (which I feel is an inherent responsibility of the start worker)



Sounds about the same as when Karen was running the NASA events. I always went to those to just to have fun and enjoy the site.

Her winter series would bring all of the top drivers in the mid-atlantic together. That was a blast.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:27 am 
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Matt McGrain wrote:
JamesShort wrote:
...one was a half figure eight and the other was a 'skid pad' that you negotiate and when you go 360 degrees, then you continue going straight....


I had the twisted idea of doing this at the Zoombies setup. I don't know what triggered it since I drive a fwd econobox. :twisted:


Like Rodney's "onion ring" at Laurinburg a couple years ago? I LOVED that, but maybe its just me. . .

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:33 am 
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BriceJohnson wrote:
Matt McGrain wrote:
JamesShort wrote:
...one was a half figure eight and the other was a 'skid pad' that you negotiate and when you go 360 degrees, then you continue going straight....


I had the twisted idea of doing this at the Zoombies setup. I don't know what triggered it since I drive a fwd econobox. :twisted:


Like Rodney's "onion ring" at Laurinburg a couple years ago? I LOVED that, but maybe its just me. . .
Explain please :).

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