Would a Clubman S be that much slower than a Cooper S in DS?

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:27 pm

Aaron Buckley wrote:

When the Cayman S, 135i, 335i and other production cars that the electronic "LSD" is holding the car back, then if Porsche & BMW isn't getting it right, I have a funny feeling Mini isn't out engineering them, considering they are owned by BMW. - AB

Your english needs some work above, but I can say for sure that the Cayman that didn't have a real LSD sucked. Newer ones can get one, though.

I agree with the general sentiment that using a brake to emulate a real LSD just can't be a better option than a real LSD. All other things being equal, of course.

--Donnie

Michael Czeiszperger · **Joined:** Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:35 am **Posts:** 861

Donnie Barnes wrote:

I agree with the general sentiment that using a brake to emulate a real LSD just can't be a better option than a real LSD. All other things being equal, of course.

Yes, but how much better? 1%? 10%? 100%? Until its quantified you just don't know if its an issue.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:45 pm

Michael Czeiszperger wrote:

Donnie Barnes wrote:

I agree with the general sentiment that using a brake to emulate a real LSD just can't be a better option than a real LSD. All other things being equal, of course.

Yes, but how much better? 1%? 10%? 100%? Until its quantified you just don't know if its an issue.

One of the problems track people have complained about with the 135/335, especially ones who've up the boost, running R-comps, etc, is all the extra heat put into the rear brakes (and wear).

I'm in the real LSD camp -- no emulator for me.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:21 pm

Michael Czeiszperger wrote:

Yes, but how much better? 1%? 10%? 100%? Until its quantified you just don't know if its an issue.

On an autocross course, when National Championships are lost by thousandths of a second, 1% would be a big difference. People spend thousands of dollars for 1% gains all the time. - AB

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:54 pm

It's racing. Any loss you can see on the timer is bad. *shrug*

--Donnie

michaelsmiller · **Posted:** Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:05 pm

My MS3 has both limited slip and ELS, so I’ve had the opportunity to judge both as I can turn off the ELS. The ELS can be felt in the steering wheel of a front drive car as it turns on and off or switches from side to side. If I don’t have it on, I get noticeable torque steer. The deal is that the torque steer is very predictable whiles the ELS seems to screw up my timing on turns. I turn the ELS off. You can learn to live with torque steer. Just don’t let go of the steering wheel.

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Would a Clubman S be that much slower than a Cooper S in DS?

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