THSCC Forums

If I were ready to buy now, I would definitely consider Ryan's car, but considering I want one more season to hopefully show that a GR chassis STi can get it done... and I've seen the Johnson's at many events and they downright abuse that car. Touring pack is also a nice adder considering it *might* weigh 10#.

The plan I have is to buy a perfect car, find a damaged front clam and put it on for autocrossing and then sell it again with the perfect front when I'm done with the car in a couple of years. - AB

_________________
'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

Unequivocally yes! I've wanted one since I first saw them in late 2004, followed the various issues on Lotustalk, and ultimately decided I'm not wealthy enough to buy one, knowing the expense and PITA experiences people have with insurance companies, finding facilities qualified to handle the repair, etc. That's only my personal preference, though, and I'm most certainly NOT saying that buying a Lotus is a mistake. Quite the contrary, the vast majority of buyers never regret buying the car and seems always to regret selling it. If I had the space and financial freedom, there's be a 2007 Exige S (magnetic Blue or Chrome Orange, please!) in my garage rightnow. Alas, neither condition has been met.....

Donnie, I'm no boat expert but apparently with some hulls a minor-appearing fiberglass crack can actually be indicative of failure of the underlying support members. The point of my bringing it up is that it's important to err on the side of caution when choosing a Lotus, and there have been numerous examples of cars being totalled by ins companies for chassis failure when the body damage didn't *seem* that bad. The example thread I linked above is only a recent case, obviously more severe than most. There are lesser examples on that forum as well, but that was more current and had reasonable pics of the issues I was mentioning. True, no one's had their car totalled for cone damage, but it's hard for me to tell what body damage is cone-related vs something like hitting a curb--that's why it's probably a better plan to pay a premium for a babied one with no clam damage. Again, my own preference.

I like Aaron's plan as well...cracked front clams should be not too hard to find.

_________________
Steve Carter
1972 Datsun 240Z-- resto pics at http://picasaweb.google.com/srcartermd
2007 GPW Honda S2000-- STR 86

Well, I'm not saying Aaron should buy Ryan's car, just that one that *did* fit the bill but had a cracked clam from hitting cones only wouldn't be a *bad* thing given his intended purpose. I suppose the idea of finding one with a good clam and then throwing a cracked one on there for autocross use might not be a bad thing. But if that's the intention I might go ahead and be clam shopping in a few months just to try to find one closer rather than far away and have it in the garage for when the car shows.

And FWIW, I doubt many here know or remember (I know Aaron does), but I have owned an Elise. I got on the list for one a year or more before they ever showed up in the States and had one of the earlier cars here. Sadly the early cars did NOT suit someone 6'2" AT ALL, but I understand they did change things a bit in the footwell and made it a bit better. My problem was I could not get my right leg clear of the steering wheel when in first or second gear...my hand would hit my knee on tight steering inputs.

That said, I taught a dude at a school at Laurinburg once in an early Exige and had one of the best runs of my life after a few pops in the car. All the dude REALLY wanted to do was ride with me rather than drive...he would just sit over there and whoop and hollar and slap his leg. Scared the shit out of me when he first started doing it (I thought something was wrong), but it was kind of fun once I realized how much fun he was having. I didn't really get in a zone until later that day, though, when a lady came up to me and said "would you take me for a ride in that car?" and pointed to the Exige. I said "I don't mind, but I need to make sure the owner is okay with it." She said "well, it's half mine and I say it's okay." "Yes ma'am, let's go." She was much more calm, and I did one casual run. She said after "was that it?" I said "oh, you want a real ride?" "Absolutely." And that run went down as the best run I've ever had on an autocross course. Unsure exactly what it was, but I slithered that car around every single element *just* touching the grass on the outside edges of the pavement, and had the shakes after.

And yet I still don't regret selling my Elise, and have no consideration for owning another. Too friggin hard to get in and out of, and I don't care to feel like I *have* to keep it that wound up just to have fun in it. Those things are gutless until that cam hits.


--Donnie

_________________
My Blog

Dibs on that Elise!

<--- son of a Lotus Elan owner...

_________________
One of those LeMonHeads...
91/95 Miata, 02 Focus SVT, 01 Ford F250, 09 Suzuki SV650SF
rusty 84 C4 Vette, tiny piece of the General Lei
Irish Sport Horse - 1hp NA!

hey guys I heard there were some questions on the 40th AE 996.

Mine was $33k and they are hard to find below $38 right now. I still don't consider it a screaming deal at $33k (already had to replace the alternator at $400 and a window regulator at $500).

I have some in-car video from my last event, but it's on my laptop. I'll upload to youtube later.

I'll save all of the guessing at what the SCCA will or won't do and give my honest opinion on the car. Right now it is totally stock. I bought some konis but they are still sitting in a box in my garage.

Good:
1. 345HP, 40mph 1st gear, 70mph 2nd. Decent torque but on-cam above 5000rpm is BALLISTIC.
2. LSD absolutely straightens the car out on-throttle when you are exiting a turn and allows great angle modulation with the throttle.
3. Rear grip on 285 PS2s is (too) great. With -1.8* camber I wore the outside edges a bit before the insides. I will go with -2.0* next alignment but most street 996s run next-to-no rear camber because let's face it they are old and don't ever turn the car hard. I will be upgrading to 295s which will easily fit.
4. Headroom is great. I think anyone under 6'4" would be okay.

Bad:
1. Little front grip. Obviously because of the weight distribution, but you have to be constantly cognizant of your throttle in order to properly distribute weight to the front. Trailing-throttle is really the only way to get the car to turn at any speed. The car feels like the front wheels leave the payment under any throttle at all. The 225s look very narrow on the 8inch wheels and I intend to get 235s next time around. I'm sure Feinberg could fit 315s on there. In addition to understeering badly, the car will not slow down. The Brembo brakes themselves are okay but the tires loose traction quickly and it takes a long time to get any weight down on those front wheels.

2. Can't put 4 wheels and tires in it easily. Legend has it that it is possible.

3. Destroys rear tires. My PS2s are toast at 1 year and 14k miles with about 4-5 events, a lot of those being 2-driver (thanks Jackie) This is probably due a bit to my overzealous driving.

4. Seats are terrible. I was not fortunate enough to get the "sport" seats by the only difference is some stupid shoulder pads. These were a HUGE letdown after leaving my 944 sport seat. I have a very difficult time not falling out the window when I am autocrossing. I seriously feel like I need to duct tape my helmet to the seat. Is that a stock-legal mod?

5. The U.S. m030 suspension has a pretty high ride height (thanks US laws). It is 20mm higher in the front compared to the proper RoW version, and 10mm in the back. It is pretty apparent when you look at the car how high the front is and I think this really messes up the handling. Unfortunately taking the extremely heavy spare and tools out of the front only worsens this.

All-in-all the car is lots of FUN and I've gotten some top-20ish PAX times in it, but I feel like I should be able to get better finishes than I have been getting. Part of it is coming from a 160hp car to this and overdriving.

I think Konis will make a big difference, but I am skeptical about the FSB (although I asked for one for Christmas). The car has very little camber up front (like less than 1*) but can get above 2 in the rear. Caster is non-adjustable from the factory but "crash bolts" are available to adjust caster, which I intend on getting as the car has very little auto-centering and the steering is too light as it is.

Well, you could have bought a new SUV for $33k that would be worth $20k now 14 months later. Instead, you could flip that car now and probably make $5k.



I'm thinking back to Donnie describing the issues with his Cayman autocrossing and it wearing the inside rear on its outside edge from too much positive camber under heavy cornering loads -- was that correct Donnie? I know nothing about 911 tire wear under autox torture, but I'm curious if it is that or actually outside, loaded, edge wear (or both?).

I wonder how it will respond to just a large FSB (compared to my experience with strut cars, etc.). It's one thing to slap one on an E46 stock class car and gain grip due to reducing the nasty camber under load and also help hold down that inside rear tire with no LSD, but on a 911, I'm curious if it will make the corner exit that much harder to get power down without plowing a field?

Anyone have any idea what prep someone like Gary Thomason did to the SS-class winning GT3? (i.e. larger FSB?) I would assume to *some* extent following a similar prep to the 996 40th would at least get you in the ballpark?

_________________
Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

The only piece of setup that I know Gary ran was 285 V710s front and rear. He had the front tires squeezed onto the front wheels very much like I did with the Crossfire or Jim has with the 275's on his Integra.

I would imagine if you want more rotation try zero rear toe or even slight toe out to get help free up the rear end. I have absolutely no experience with a 911 when autocrossing but these are all things I would try to free up the tail.

_________________
2010 Honda Fit Sport
Couple of bicycles

I have just a bit of toe in on the rear, as I didn't want to be constantly losing control of my new car. I will definitely go closer to zero to reduce the tire wear and help it turn a bit. I can see fitting a 245 on 8" wheels but 285 R comps? I didn't think those would even fit in the wheel well up front but I don't intend on getting street tires that big to find out.

The wear itself is actually pretty uniform but the outside edge is the most pronounced. If I were to keep competing on these tires, I believe that the outside would cord before the insides. The middle of the tire is still significantly above the wear bars.

I also forgot to mention that it is very difficult to launch the car smoothly. If you try to engage the clutch quickly it will wheel hop very badly as opposed to smoothly breaking free. I usually launch with just a squeak of wheelspin.

I would go with zero toe if it is an pushy as you are making it seem like but because you are just running local events you might want to leave it with some toe in for street driving.

As for the 285's on an 8 inch rim. I put them on a 7.5 inch wide rim on the front of the Crossfire with now problems. I am pretty sure there was a Boxster guy doing it with a 7 inch rim. Now I need to get used to doing the opposite by putting a 4.6 inch wide tire on a 5.5 inch wide wheel up front and a 7.1 inch tire on a 7.75 inch wide wheel in the rear of the kart.

_________________
2010 Honda Fit Sport
Couple of bicycles

Keith, are you *sure* he fit 285's on the front? Sure, you can get them on the wheel, I just didn't think they'd clear a *stock* fender opening. Or was this past year's protest on someone trying an even *larger* front tire???

At any rate, I'm fairly certain you do want a bigger FSB on the 911. Yes, the Cayman needed more bar because I was killing the outside edge of the tire, but the Cayman's stock suspension is setup fairly different from the 911, too. Basically, with no LSD if you unloaded the inside rear enough, it would spin. And on the Cayman, when you unload the rear (ie. at full droop), the thing goes CRAZY toward positive camber. I don't remember the exact details, but we "fixed" that on my car with a lot of 911 suspension parts (but that was with all the Farnbacher mods that obviously take it out of stock). But they were GT3 parts, so perhaps the 911 rear suspension is doing the same thing. Jack it up and see what the camber looks like as it droops...

But you have an LSD, so that still shouldn't be it. Hmmph. I really doubt a little toe-in will give you the wear problem (or even annoy it much), but it will definitely give you the push.

How big of an FSB do you need? Unsure. Back in our Cayman days, there was NO FSB that worked on our car off the shelf, and I gave up before there were some. Now there are plenty, and certainly are some for the 911, too.


--Donnie

_________________
My Blog

This was in 2008 when he won SS. He was running the Kuhmos though which pinch much harder than the Hoosiers and won't be as wide when squeezed onto the narrow wheel. Maybe that is why they fit in the wheel opening?

_________________
2010 Honda Fit Sport
Couple of bicycles

Coming back to A-stock, etc, does anyone know what the BMW M6 (the 2006-2011 car, not the E24) class is? The car is not listed in the 2010 SCCA rules. Perhaps there is some message in there about cars not listed are not eligible to compete in any class. The E60 M5 is listed in B-stock (this is huge laugh given it weighs just over 4000lbs, has poor low-end torque, and is wide, long and tall), but the M6 is shorter, lower and weighs a couple of hundred pounds less (BMW specs 3900 with full tank of gas and driver, so the car is probably 37xx w/o said driver).

There is a listing in F-stock btw for BMW 6-series coupes. I suppose one could argue that is its class since it is indeed a BMW 6-series coupe. (not that it would be competitive in F-stock, but it sure would be interesting, especially on fast courses).

_________________
Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2