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I dunno, I'm not sure they put enough popular stuff in there. *sigh* I'm also quite sure it'll take some development and talent both to beat an S2000 on an autocross course for ANY of the cars on that list. The C5 is probably the only car you could recipe up and just drive well, though I guess the 911 and maybe the Z4-M might have a chance (and some off the shelf parts to work with). The M3 is probably just too heavy, same with the IS-F. I don't see the Boxster and the Cayman doing much, either.


--Donnie

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So why is DS still significantly lower than ES? Oh yes, that's right, all of those turbo Coopers and WRXs need the help.

It's the ITR that has been setting the DS pace.....tell Feinberg and Spratte to get faster . This is the first year of the MCS in DS and surprisingly enough it took 1st .

ES is was 3.5 seconds faster than DS at Nationals this year (the 1.8L NA taking 8 out of the top 10).

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Just because you came within spitting distance of me once this year doesn't give you the right to bitch. Hah!

What about the 2004 911 40th anniversary car? It has the X51 power package and, perhaps most importantly, an LSD (compared to other AS 996 cars, Boxster, Cayman, etc). 8" front, 10" rear wheel widths. I don't know, but with the right prep work, what do you think?

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That's the only 911 worth trying, IMHO. Good luck finding one. They're out there, but there isn't always one for sale. I looked a couple different times and even had a local dealer big shot "make some calls" to no avail.


--Donnie

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Ash (William) Gravely found one last year for an incredible deal at a Pontiac dealer of all places. No wrecks, just traded in by original owner he called and vetted the car through. It had about 40k miles at the time. I think this is one of those deals where the dealer didn't know what he had (assumed it was a "normal" 2004 996). I've seen a few on eBay recently but at much higher prices than Ash had to pay.

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

Maybe you more versed Pcar folks can answer this, but why is is so rare to find a Pcar with an LSD? I mean when you are spending 60k+ on a performance oriented car, you'd hope an LSD is standard. Maybe the rear suspension and additional weight on the rear is enough to mitigate the need for an LSD (to an extent)?

_________________
2011/2012 Autox VP
2013/2014.5 President
2013 Top Gun

2015 Fit

22R-EC => 4G63 => D16Y7 + D16Y8 => EJ255 + K24Z2 => K20Z3 + K24Z2 => K24Z2 + M54 => L15B

I'm not much up on the 996, but for all the "normal" 996s, I think only the 1999 model was available with an LSD. I think when Porsche went to an electronic throttle and PSM perhaps they took away the LSD option on "normal" 911s. So other than the first year (1999) and the 1964 2004-model 40th anniversary cars, I think only the GT3 and GT2 996 came with LSDs.

I'm not sure what the deal is with the 997. Searching 6speedonline.com and rennlist would probably answer all this stuff.

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

Yeah, it's just that your typical 911 buyer won't know if it is or isn't there, so why put it in? And yeah, the electronics mimic it well enough for that guy, too. *shrug*

I mean there's no such thing as an LSD option for a Cayman or Boxster, for crying out loud. Thankfully there are FINALLY decent aftermarket options, though. I swear there might not be anything nicer than the Cayman with 400HP (or more) and a good suspension and 14 clutch pack LSD. Looking forward to getting mine back on track with the transmission cooler done and with some better tires...

So yeah, most Pcar guys really are just posers. There aren't THAT many GT3 (and higher) car owners who actually use the features of THOSE cars as intended, either. It's quite sad, really. There are a lot more guys who *can* drive who drive well modded older Pcars for a variety of reasons, though.


--Donnie

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When I shopped recently for Cayman S (hey, a guy can dream, right?) there was an LSD option available for the second gen (2009+) model. Here's a very enlightening discussion in re: Cayman S setup...

To sum up: lots of money spent to still get beat by S2000s.

http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/390295.aspx

edit:
And a nice dissection/discussion of the factory LSD

http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxster- ... ected.html

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Donnie, just out of curiosity, why do you think that is? Is it the ten year head start on development?

It seems to me that the C5 would definitely be the easy choice, as you mentioned. Surely a lot of the setup stuff the SS guys have figured out would carry over...or is there more different to a Z06 than I think? I don't know Corvettes at all.

I also wonder about an RX-7 TT. Trouble is finding one that's still stock.

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Karl S.
2014 Baby, 2014 House, 2013 Ford Focus ST, 2013 BMW 328i, 1994 Mercedes E320
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Sorry, I did mean in the AS legal Boxsters and Caymans. Yeah, they finally give you a shitty option for the later cars. I donut giddit.


--Donnie

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Forget the RX-7. Even if you find one stock you won't be able to keep it running for two days of autocrossing, much less anything else.

Yeah, basically, I'm not sure the C5 can do it, but if anything can, that's probably it. That 40th 911 is interesting, too. But basically think about it like this...the S2000 has 10 years of development by some of the top names in the business through DEEP fields. That's on a well designed, relatively light, and fairly small double wishbone car that can fit a lot of tire for its weight. Oh, and a well balanced car, too. The Vette is heavy and big. The 911 isn't well balanced, anyway. Nobody has ever really developed a 911 for stock autocross, either. And how many people care to go buy a non-Z06 C5 to "play" with? Why would you? Z06's are so cheap as it is...

So I'm not necessarily saying those cars can't beat an S2000. I'm just saying nobody is likely to develop them far enough to...or at least nobody with the driving talent to also get it done. The depth of competition just won't ever happen without some more interesting cars to car people.


--Donnie

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I actually noticed that and didn't think it was a big surprise due the number of entries and talent.

I wish there were more AS cars for sure as these are some of the most fun cars to watch (along with you folks in the BS S2k's). Nothing against the Civic rustbuckets/babyhaulers and other less than interesting cars like mine.