NCAC?

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:42 pm

Keith Vail wrote:

The problem with class wins points is that people try and run any class their car is eligible in to get points for a win not actually run against other people. I liked the top 5 PAX and top 5 raw times combined idea as it is about as good as you can get personally. You can even open it up to top 10 in each if you want to.

I like this.. top 10 Pax combined with top 10 raw, lowest total wins. That way, you can have people that have a difficult PAX, but a fast car, compete. Personally, I think we should be limiting karts and AM, BM, CM, and DM to PAX only, for you could stack multiple drivers into a mod or kart to try to win the battle. Fendered cars for raw and PAX for everyone. - AB

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:55 pm

Aaron Buckley wrote:

Keith Vail wrote:

The problem with class wins points is that people try and run any class their car is eligible in to get points for a win not actually run against other people. I liked the top 5 PAX and top 5 raw times combined idea as it is about as good as you can get personally. You can even open it up to top 10 in each if you want to.

I like this.. top 10 Pax combined with top 10 raw, lowest total wins. That way, you can have people that have a difficult PAX, but a fast car, compete. Personally, I think we should be limiting karts and AM, BM, CM, and DM to PAX only, for you could stack multiple drivers into a mod or kart to try to win the battle. Fendered cars for raw and PAX for everyone. - AB

Of course, this penalizes the drivers of fast cars.

Would it work to take the Top PAX and Top RAW drivers (8 per club for example), and add their PAX and RAW times together, then use that as their total time?

That would help neutralize the mod cars. Of course, if you are top RAW and top PAX, you will get counted twice, so it pays to have your best drivers in really fast cars.

Did that make any sense?

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:06 pm

scottjohnson wrote:

Of course, this penalizes the drivers of fast cars.

Would it work to take the Top PAX and Top RAW drivers (8 per club for example), and add their PAX and RAW times together, then use that as their total time?

That would help neutralize the mod cars. Of course, if you are top RAW and top PAX, you will get counted twice, so it pays to have your best drivers in really fast cars.

Did that make any sense?

Read my posts again Scott. That's what I was proposing. The only reason behind eliminating karts and non-fendered Mod cars is that if you have a club with 3-4 mod cars/karts in with decent drivers, considering the non-PAX times added together are going to be the bulk of the team time, it would easily lead to a win. We could state that only 2 of the top 10 times can be with a kart or non-fendered Mod car. - AB

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:14 pm

so... since only top 10 raw and PAX times count (as proposed) why would a TIR car want to show up since the odds are heavily against that driver contributing to the points total? Is there still a class award in addition to the Club Cup?

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:22 pm

Steven Carter wrote:

so... since only top 10 raw and PAX times count (as proposed) why would a TIR car want to show up since the odds are heavily against that driver contributing to the points total? Is there still a class award in addition to the Club Cup?

Here's the deal. As much as someone may not contribute to the Club Cup, for each class a North Carolina State Championship is up for grabs. That includes Tire, Novice, etc., so while creating rules for the Club Cup may not all inclusive, you still can be crowned a State Champion, which is pretty cool. - AB

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

Well, this debate has been played out many times before and always results in lots of complex convoluted solutions. There is no perfect and fair solution and whatever you decide on, someone is going to try "game" the system. I agree with those that say the club cup has become more of a pain than its worth and it would make things easier if it would just go away, but that's just not going to happen at this point.

As for history, last year was the only time it was based on pax finish alone and every year has had different rules. I understand not wanting to ruffle feathers by using last years system, however it was just one year, so not much of a precedent there. Basing it purely on pax at our level has many shortcomings, personally I liked what we did the last time we were in charge, I think it was top ten pax/raw plus bonus points for FT*'s and I think more bonus points for class win, though restricted to classes with 3+ competitors. Yes that was complicated, but it covered all the bases well. If we want to go with a precedent, I vote we go with our own precedent rather than triad's. There is no point system that will allow a group with a very small turnout a chance at wnning as we have discovered the past couple years directly, so there isn't much point in trying to do so IMO. The top 7-8 pax system that Triad used last year is practically taylor made to the composition of their turnout. There hasn't been a whole lot of arguing between clubs the past few years about this as everyone has seemed to concede that it is up to the host club and arguing about it leads nowhere. Regardless of how we score this, we have to have a good turnout to win, so that should be the main focus. I'm coming out to try to win my class just like I have every other year regardless if I contribute to the club cup points or not. I pretty sure I am the only THSCCer that has made it to every one of these since we started the single event format in 2004 btw, anyone else?

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:32 pm

Aaron Buckley wrote:

scottjohnson wrote:

Of course, this penalizes the drivers of fast cars.

Would it work to take the Top PAX and Top RAW drivers (8 per club for example), and add their PAX and RAW times together, then use that as their total time?

That would help neutralize the mod cars. Of course, if you are top RAW and top PAX, you will get counted twice, so it pays to have your best drivers in really fast cars.

Did that make any sense?

Read my posts again Scott. That's what I was proposing. The only reason behind eliminating karts and non-fendered Mod cars is that if you have a club with 3-4 mod cars/karts in with decent drivers, considering the non-PAX times added together are going to be the bulk of the team time, it would easily lead to a win. We could state that only 2 of the top 10 times can be with a kart or non-fendered Mod car. - AB

That sounds pretty damn fair to me. We are definitely on the short side of the non-fendered entrants

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:51 pm

The event details look to be the "generic" event details. Will it be $20 to register each day?

I was going to advertise the on some other sites but I want to point folks to the correct info.

KendtEklund · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:29 pm **Posts:** 1204

2 thoughts -

On the system Les was describing, where there are bonuses for class wins - could you not also add a bonus for club numbers (say compared to the entry count average for each club's own events) - this would encourage as many participants as possible. Yeah - I know - another complication...

On gaming the system by stacking drivers in a fast car - maybe say times for only one driver per car count towards whatever scoring system is used?

JamesMilko · **Posted:** Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:58 pm

Or that the co-driver had to have driven that car at another club event this year. Although I'm sure there are cases (Especially for Highlands) of people giving out co-drives so less people have to drive out here.

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:30 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

The event details look to be the "generic" event details. Will it be $20 to register each day?

I was going to advertise the on some other sites but I want to point folks to the correct info.

PLEASE do not advertise on the other sites! Content control is getting out of hand w/ face book and now this. I've contacted the other 4 clubs and trying to dole out correct info as we validate it. If you just want to stir the pot w/ them, cool, but offer no details. We'll push out details as we can when we can.

No, the $20 is not correct and we are trying to nail down payment options. Dustin and Carl are working on the final pricing and how to pay. Please stay tuned.

The semi official face book page is...

http://www.facebook.com/#!/event.php?ei ... 7648022796

please ask folks to review this page for current info. This info has been listed on all the other forums.

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:32 pm

Les Davis wrote:

I pretty sure I am the only THSCCer that has made it to every one of these since we started the single event format in 2004 btw, anyone else?

I've made it to every one since I began autocrossing in '05. Even as a Noob. Would have been there in '04 too, Les, if I had ever heard of autocross.

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:32 pm

RodneyWright wrote:

PLEASE

The semi official face book page is...

http://www.facebook.com/#!/event.php?ei ... 7648022796
.

Booo facebooks.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:39 pm

MarcusMcRae wrote:

Booo facebooks.

x2. Those of us that laugh in the face of social networking can't even see the event details?

- AB

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

Gwen Baake wrote:

Les Davis wrote:

I pretty sure I am the only THSCCer that has made it to every one of these since we started the single event format in 2004 btw, anyone else?

I've made it to every one since I began autocrossing in '05. Even as a Noob. Would have been there in '04 too, Les, if I had ever heard of autocross.

I believe your right Gwen, I don't recall you missing one since '05 either. I suppose you can be excused for missing '04 but you really should have learned about autocross sooner. :wink:

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