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this is a dangerous slippery slope. If you allow anything but testing the course during a setup day, you have effectively endorsed turning any site we run into a drag strip. There is enough pavement on some of our sites to hit WELL over 100 mph in the right car if an autocross course is no longer a consideration. Everyone has their own definition of "fun". If you are going to allow event chairs to "have fun" with a site, there needs to be some vetting process for event chairs, which is not anywhere we want to go.

I would STRONGLY suggest that this be a discussion that occur at a club meeting, rather than on the forums for obvious reasons.

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2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

hehehehe Brice said "Vette'in". i guess Brice missed the Sanford event with the speed trap.

i must say Ya'll, i have been a member of this club since 2004 and this is by far the greatest day EVAR

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BenchWarmer Motorsports

another one of those damn LeMons heads

just another Chump

we are an Autocross Club Dammit............

Usually I am too tired to drive too much when I set up a course, that said I think it just revolves around fairness - It is not "fair" to drive several runs on a course you design because you get an advantage over your competitors - which you probably have already since you designed the course.

However, if you are just out to have fun then have fun and blow off your runs in the event. Kevin has set up for plenty of events at which he didn't participate.

As far as safety, how can it be unexpected? Workers are supposed to be watching the car and I've seen plenty of cars go off while negotiating (or in that case not negotiating) an element. If you want to kill your tires it is no skin off my nose and if you would rather "have fun" then get the best time I can't argue with it.

JMHO

I'm not sure this is the right tone to attract volunteers. To help with this weekend's event, I am spending a hundred bucks on a room I wouldn't need otherwise, and leaving home at noon on Saturday for a Sunday event. It will be hot as hell and possibly raining as we set up. In other words, I'm going to some effort for this. So if I haven't already been vetted, then you can all kiss my ass.

BTW, Brice, I only quoted you because it was convenient, not that I think you need to kiss my ass, etc.

oh yeah, Best Day Evar

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BenchWarmer Motorsports

another one of those damn LeMons heads

just another Chump

we are an Autocross Club Dammit............

I had to just look out the window to see if it was a full moon or not. Apparently everyone is a few days early (next full moon is on the 26th). Maybe it's the heat. Maybe someone put something in the water.

I would like to think we can discuss this without people freaking out. But if we can't I will lock this thread as well.

And Steve, try to not act so happy.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

I'v been hesitant to reply, but I think someone asked about "how things have been in the past". I guess I'm becoming a club old-timer at this point so I can shed some light.

Setup days have always been run with the expectation that people will drive at 90% during testing. It's been an unwritten rule for fairness that you won't run in any way to have a competitive advantage. But it's also been a rule that can be broken in the right circumstances without raising too much ire.

There has also always been a rule, sometimes written, that "Any Jackassery on or off the course will result in you being banished from this and future events".

Now the extent to which this is/was enforced has a lot to do with how visible our actions are. At Laurinburg a trusted person can get away with a lot more than at a more "visible" site.

It's all a sliding scale. But now that Kevin is pushing it, maybe it's time for some rules, which is unfortunate.... Back in the day I got to do some timed 1/4 mile G-tech runs, with permission, at Laurinburg to test engine chips.

Kevin, I'm on your side too, I want to find a place to go drive like Ken Block. But I don't think a setup day at most of our sites is the place to do it... Let me know if you find a better place

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

I see nothing to be gained in replying to Kevin's post, but I do have something to say about what Rob said.

Do you get an advantage when you setup and pre-run the course? Sure you do. Like Maria said, why go through all the extra effort to be an event chair for nothing? Want an advantage for yourself? Volunteer to be an event chair!

I remember a certain course that Ryan and I setup a few years back at Rocky Mount. Had we not tested it at the limit we would have not discovered a steel soccer goal needed to be moved. As it turned out the next day I spun in the very same sweeper and went off into the grass where that soccer goal was before we moved it.

BTW, I agree with Mike that we need a Ken Block-type venue somewhere. We can have a car control competition between Kevin and Randy and I'll put $100 on Randy to beat him any day.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

IMO this is the best reply in this thread. Well done, Mike.

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Rubbin' is Racin'

With all the pissy threads on here this week, I'm sure that the autocross is going to be a blast!

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Todd Breakey
STS 42 - 1992 Sunburst Miata
Dammit!
"You souldn't play leap frog with a porcupine. You might get hurt." - Eliza

y'all just come on out to a rallycross and we'll treatya' right

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'11 RallyX VP
1998 Integra Type R - track fun
1999 Subaru 2.5RS - dirt fun

Usually we see this level of... ugh... distress? during the off season. I can only imagine what it will be like here in February. But have faith! Assuming everyone doesn't melt from the heat I am sure you will all have a good time. I just need to see if I can wrangle a drive sometime before the end of the year. I would like to attend and participate at an event this year.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

i'm counting on that Todd.

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BenchWarmer Motorsports

another one of those damn LeMons heads

just another Chump

we are an Autocross Club Dammit............

What I don't get Steve is that I "think" you are mostly joking, but then again I am not sure. My family and I enjoy watching TV shows like Americas Funniest Videos. You get a chance to be an outside observer and watch other people get kicked in the crotch or face plant when trying to jump their bicycle over a homemade ramp. But it quits being funny when it happens to me ("me" being the entire club which you are part of if you haven't figured that out.

I am not trying to over dramatize what is going on here, but I really don't find much humor in the fact that people are bummed out about stuff like this thread. I really DO hope that everyone has a good weekend at the event. Frankly maybe everyone having a good time is what is needed.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

I apologize for my bad attitude of last night. I got caught in the middle of somebody else's fight, and I haven't been happy about it.

I know it's not easy to run a volunteer organization - I've done it myself - and this one is particularly complex. If you want high quality volunteers, you have to create a friendly environment, give people some control over what they are doing, respect their ability to do a good enough job, and give them the help and information they need to do a good job. I think it's reasonable for there to be a little practice benefit for volunteering, too. I'm just trying to improve my driving, so if I could run the course finish-to-start in my own car a few times I'd be thrilled. This is hardly reckless or irresponsible, and I am naturally going to bristle at anything that sounds like lecturing in this regard.

Anyway, people always point out the mistakes, and I think this week's "situation" is unusual for a club that has been the friendliest group I have ever been a part of. I'm amazed at how things are run so well, how well novices are treated, and how generous most people are with good advice. I'm having a blast, and I'm putting this week's nonsense behind me so I can have fun this weekend.