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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:12 am 
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JamesFeinberg wrote:

With that said, they should make a very good ProSolo car and I'd love to see Aaron get one and try to prove me wrong. :wink:

Jim


I'm likely to stay the course with a 2006 STI, but I am curious to see how it might fair ;) - AB

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:41 am 
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JamesFeinberg wrote:
I've driven a couple of the '09's set up for DS and I don't think they can quite get it done...


Sorry, what car are you talking about?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:47 am 
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Michael Czeiszperger wrote:

Sorry, what car are you talking about?



He's talking about the '08+ WRX.

As for what Dick is talking about with the '11 V6 Mustang, I think it'd be fine in DS. - AB

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:04 am 
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JamesFeinberg wrote:
Steven Carter wrote:
With the way Mr Short is progressing in his skillz, certain 135i and ITR drivers may be thankful he stayed in TIR class this year...


Really? [Channeling Mr. Buckley] Bring it! :D

I've driven a couple of the '09's set up for DS and I don't think they can quite get it done. The power numbers look great and the torque curve seems to be better than the earlier cars on paper but it just doesn't translate very well to an AutoX environment for whatever reason.

They are a rocketship once they get going but they seem to lose enough time spooling up after getting back to the throttle that it is a wash. If you try to minimize the effect by aggressive left foot braking while still on the throttle, the drive-by-wire system does weird things. I'm sure they would be great on the right type of course but, in that case, I'd still give the nod to the 135i.

There were some very good drivers to try them out last year but none of them showed up at Nationals in one. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not... :whoknows:

With that said, they should make a very good ProSolo car and I'd love to see Aaron get one and try to prove me wrong. :wink:

Jim
Jim, while I respect your angle on the car, I will say one thing that of the 09s that were 'set up' for DS, did they have shocks done? As of today there are two options: $6000 mouton custom strut inserts and rear shock (who puts $6k in shocks into a WRX :) ) and a Frankenstein Koni front insert, and rear shock job from the Legacy GT (I outlined the details in a thread about a month ago). If the WRX did not have either of this done, I think you'll have to ride along/codrive with Steve or myself in a few weeks when we get our Bilsteins. The stock shocks on the 09 are very poorly fit for the springs....55% critical damping blows badly. The low speed damping is Cadillac like.

I played with left foot braking a bit today on the way to work and was able to maintain positive boost (a couple psi thought...but better than full vacuum) under heavy braking with no DBW issues....did you have VDC on? I probably wouldn't try it on a course until I get more comfortable doing it (my size 13 doesn't help :) ). But I see your point. At the Danville event (second to last from 2009), on that constant radius sweeper all the way at the back of the course, if I stayed in 2nd, as I exited the turn, I was completely in vacuum and entered the slalom just as I regained some boost....but I was back on the brakes at this point. Rob L. rode along with me and suggested I brake earlier when entering that turn so I can be light throttle through out the turn rather than braking or coasting the bulk of the time....on my next run, I did so and I exited with much more spool so I was able to get going faster at turn exit. Obviously this is a very specific instance, but since then I have tried to control my over driving of certain turns by braking earlier so that I can be on part throttle throughout the turn to maintain boost. I might start playing with left foot braking in some fun runs to see how that works for me.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:47 am 
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JamesShort wrote:
Jim, while I respect your angle on the car, I will say one thing that of the 09s that were 'set up' for DS, did they have shocks done? As of today there are two options: $6000 mouton custom strut inserts and rear shock (who puts $6k in shocks into a WRX :) ) and a Frankenstein Koni front insert, and rear shock job from the Legacy GT (I outlined the details in a thread about a month ago).


I know of at least 4 ST/STS 88-89 Civic/CRX's that have $4k plus Moton sets on them. The car that won Nationals in ST last year had Moton Triples which retail for almost $7,000. So spending $6,000 on a set of shocks for a $24k car is not anywhere near unheard of. There are many stock class cars with those kinds of shocks on them as well. Chris Carris had over $5k invested in his AST's on his 08 STi when he ran that car.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:02 pm 
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Keith Vail wrote:
JamesShort wrote:
Jim, while I respect your angle on the car, I will say one thing that of the 09s that were 'set up' for DS, did they have shocks done? As of today there are two options: $6000 mouton custom strut inserts and rear shock (who puts $6k in shocks into a WRX :) ) and a Frankenstein Koni front insert, and rear shock job from the Legacy GT (I outlined the details in a thread about a month ago).


I know of at least 4 ST/STS 88-89 Civic/CRX's that have $4k plus Moton sets on them. The car that won Nationals in ST last year had Moton Triples which retail for almost $7,000. So spending $6,000 on a set of shocks for a $24k car is not anywhere near unheard of. There are many stock class cars with those kinds of shocks on them as well. Chris Carris had over $5k invested in his AST's on his 08 STi when he ran that car.

Fair enough. Granted the EF Civic is known to be incredibly competitive in ST for a long time so that doesn't surprise me too much. Same thing with the STI (any generation). I guess my point was that the 09+ WRX is a newbie and it would surprise me if someone would drop that much in shocks into a car that hasn't been thoroughly tested to see it's chances to be competitive in a given class. But I very well could be wrong :).

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:10 pm 
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JamesShort wrote:
Fair enough. Granted the EF Civic is known to be incredibly competitive in ST for a long time so that doesn't surprise me too much. Same thing with the STI (any generation). I guess my point was that the 09+ WRX is a newbie and it would surprise me if someone would drop that much in shocks into a car that hasn't been thoroughly tested to see it's chances to be competitive in a given class. But I very well could be wrong :).


Depending on how the car feels at ZMax, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for me to make some calls to AST. I think the most I've spent on shocks for a stock based car was about $2400. - AB

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:12 pm 
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Keith Vail wrote:
Chris Carris had over $5k invested in his AST's on his 08 STi when his car constantly blew up at events.


Corrected for truth :) - AB

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:27 pm 
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James, as Keith said, I think you'd be very surprised what people will spend on shocks when developing a car. And just because there isn't an off the shelf package available for a particular car, that won't stop some people from seeking out their own solutions. Some of the time, those custom solutions wind up being the prototypes for a new off the shelf package.

The 2 '09 WRX's I drove were definitely not on the stock shocks and I didn't have any of the electronic nannies on. I actually think the '06 WRX is a better all-around DS AutoX car for most courses but that is just my opinion. Feel free to disagree. :)

Out of all the DS cars I've driven (ITR, '06-'09 WRX, 135i, 330i ZHP, Speed3), I had the most fun in the Mazdaspeed3. That thing made me feel like a hooligan (OK, more like a hooligan than I already am) and actually had me giggling in a few spots out on course. It was enough of a hoot that I'm seriously thinking of buying one as a daily driver. I don't know exactly what it is about that car but it was just plain fun. It was nearly the polar opposite to the now not-so-dearly departed yellow ES MR2 in which I never had a single run where I got excited.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:51 pm 
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JamesFeinberg wrote:
James, as Keith said, I think you'd be very surprised what people will spend on shocks when developing a car. And just because there isn't an off the shelf package available for a particular car, that won't stop some people from seeking out their own solutions. Some of the time, those custom solutions wind up being the prototypes for a new off the shelf package.

The 2 '09 WRX's I drove were definitely not on the stock shocks and I didn't have any of the electronic nannies on. I actually think the '06 WRX is a better all-around DS AutoX car for most courses but that is just my opinion. Feel free to disagree. :)

Out of all the DS cars I've driven (ITR, '06-'09 WRX, 135i, 330i ZHP, Speed3), I had the most fun in the Mazdaspeed3. That thing made me feel like a hooligan (OK, more like a hooligan than I already am) and actually had me giggling in a few spots out on course. It was enough of a hoot that I'm seriously thinking of buying one as a daily driver. I don't know exactly what it is about that car but it was just plain fun. It was nearly the polar opposite to the now not-so-dearly departed yellow ES MR2 in which I never had a single run where I got excited.

Jim
I stand corrected then :). I shouldn't have assumed you were driving an ill prepped car anyway!

I've only driven a 2.0L WRX (04 or 05) and mine. I can see how the 06 (no DBW or lean tune crap) could be better in some regards given how fast the td04 spools (even though it drops fast at the top end) and the fact the low end tq. is still decent due to displacement.

I agree the longer gearing of the LGT gearset is a disadvantage in the situation you called out where you are out of boost at turn exit.....depending on the course the extra mphs you can get out of 2nd is quite nice (read: last sanford event ;) ). The longer 1st is nice too in some cases...at LJVM, I stayed in 1st for the first 1/4 of the course where a 06/07 would have had to hit 2nd unless they wanted to bang of the limiter.

Anyway, I'm a noob, what do I know :).

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 Post subject: Re: Back To Mini Coopers
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:29 pm 
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pitchwoolfolk wrote:
Smart Cars of Cary now owns my 2002 yellow S2000. If anyone wants an S2000 in excellent condition with Koni yellow shocks, that is were to go.


Must... resist...

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:49 pm 
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Aaron Buckley wrote:
Keith Vail wrote:
Chris Carris had over $5k invested in his AST's on his 08 STi when his car constantly blew up at events.


Corrected for truth :) - AB


What do you mean. He only went through 3 engines during the 2008 season. :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:20 pm 
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So, given that a 2011 V-6 with GT suspension Mustang wouldn't have any of the problems noted above :lol: , would it be too big/heavy to dominate in DS? It looks to be "almost current FS" in performance and the FS PAX is tougher than the DS PAX as I recall?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:41 pm 
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DickRasmussen wrote:
So, given that a 2011 V-6 with GT suspension Mustang wouldn't have any of the problems noted above :lol: , would it be too big/heavy to dominate in DS? It looks to be "almost current FS" in performance and the FS PAX is tougher than the DS PAX as I recall?


I would personally be afraid of putting the car in DS but it seems that the SEB has been trying to speed up DS so maybe they will put the 2011 V6 there. Being able to get LSD is what makes the car a bit scary. The 135 has an e-LSD and that seems to work well but I have never driven one to know. Keith Q. has spent enough time in one to know how it works.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:33 pm 
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Keith Vail wrote:
DickRasmussen wrote:
So, given that a 2011 V-6 with GT suspension Mustang wouldn't have any of the problems noted above :lol: , would it be too big/heavy to dominate in DS? It looks to be "almost current FS" in performance and the FS PAX is tougher than the DS PAX as I recall?


I would personally be afraid of putting the car in DS but it seems that the SEB has been trying to speed up DS so maybe they will put the 2011 V6 there. Being able to get LSD is what makes the car a bit scary. The 135 has an e-LSD and that seems to work well but I have never driven one to know. Keith Q. has spent enough time in one to know how it works.


Not only will it have a LSD, according to Sam Strano the current Ford LSD doesn't wear out quickly like the pre-2005's did (wear out compared to packed TIGHT with extra shims which were legit before 2005). Also I think the 2005 plus Mustangs can adjust front camber . . . and with all that torque "killing" understeer apparently isn't a problem. Shocks should be readily available, etc. It will be interesting to watch what happens.

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