Mini advice needed

David Spratte · **Posted:** Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:45 am

Maria Winslow wrote:

RodneyWright wrote:

ok, I'm looking at a '06 Mini cooper S w/ a sports package. What do I need to look out for in one of these?

You could consider if you want a supercharger or a turbo. The 07 is the first year of the turbo. At least it sounds sweet compared to that whine...

That's a matter of opinion. Some people like the whine.

The turbo models (07+) get better mileage than the first generation. Direct injection, etc and so on. Plus it's a turbo, that helps over the supercharger.

The second generation cars likely make better daily drivers but I think the first gen is more fun. A little less plush. If that makes any sense.

Hold out for a car with a LSD if you intend to autocross it. Unless you get a ridiculous deal, you'd likely miss that. LSDs were available in 05 and 06 models. In addition they did some other tweaks to the car starting in 05. Slightly taller gearing than the early cars.

The only bit of preventative maint. I did regarding shock towers was for the front. A couple of companies make reinforcement plates. I've never gotten any notice of a TSB. I think I paid $100 for my plates even if most of the people having issues with them were on 19" wheels and eBay coilovers. Seemed like cheap insurance.

Fun cars. Don't really need to do anything to it for autocross other than put about 8 more pounds pressure in the rear and drive the crap out of it.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

I'll echo David that the 1st gen cars are better IMO, but this argument has been made over the interwebz over and over. Really, the turbo's are faster, and better for autocross (they can get some add'l negative camber in the front). However, I prefer the overall feel, the supercharger whine, the styling, and just the overall character of the R53 (1st gen S) over the turbo anyday. If you gas mileage is important to you though, you might want to get a turbo though. My wife's car only gets ~26 mpg. Granted, its a Works car (smaller supercharger pulley and VERY conservative, rich fuel tuning), but the turbos will undoubtedly get better mileage.

+1,000,000 on getting a car w/ LSD. Its a must if you ask me. The good thing about the '06's is that most of the issues have been worked out. There WERE a lot of bugs in this car but most of them got worked out by the last year.

If you start looking at the turbo's, look up "Cold start issues" or "Death rattle" on either motoringfile or northamericanmotoring and take a peak. Its a pretty serious issue.

David Spratte · **Posted:** Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:29 am

I think the new DS is going to be pretty course dependent to be honest. Between the Legendwaitforitihopyouaren'tlactoseintolerant-dairy ITR, two generations of MINIs.*

The ITR is likely the best overall handling car of the three. The early MINIs transition ridiculously well and the newest MINI's have a torque curve that's similar to a shuttle launch. A tight slow course will really play to the second gen's strength in that it'll claw it's way out of those corners faster than the other two.

*I don't think the 135 is out of the hunt. I just haven't had any seat time in one.

Enough talk about second gen. I think we covered all the common gottya issues on the R53. Fun cars. I'd drive one. :lol:

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:27 am

David Spratte wrote:

I think the new DS is going to be pretty course dependent to be honest. Between the Legendwaitforitihopyouaren'tlactoseintolerant-dairy ITR, two generations of MINIs.*

The ITR is likely the best overall handling car of the three. The early MINIs transition ridiculously well and the newest MINI's have a torque curve that's similar to a shuttle launch. A tight slow course will really play to the second gen's strength in that it'll claw it's way out of those corners faster than the other two.

*I don't think the 135 is out of the hunt. I just haven't had any seat time in one.

Enough talk about second gen. I think we covered all the common gottya issues on the R53. Fun cars. I'd drive one. :lol:

What? No Crossfire?

- AB

JamesShort · **Posted:** Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:10 pm

The 09+ WRX is starting to show some presence in DS in a few regions. It's beat a few seasoned ITRs too (both on R comps).

Don't get me wrong, the ITR out handles the WRX like nobody's business (hopefully GTWORX get's those Bilstein WRX struts/shocks produced soon!), but the power and the gearing is generally going to win the battle except on the slowest of courses I suppose.

Too bad Steven and I are going to run sissy TIR this year

.

David Spratte · **Posted:** Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:06 pm

Aaron Buckley wrote:

What? No Crossfire?

- AB

Well, if anybody talented had ever run one. . . .

Maria Winslow · **Posted:** Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:11 pm

BriceJohnson wrote:

My wife's car only gets ~26 mpg.

FYI, I get 29.5, and never miss an opportunity to waste gas.

BriceJohnson wrote:

If you start looking at the turbo's, look up "Cold start issues" or "Death rattle" on either motoringfile or northamericanmotoring and take a peak. Its a pretty serious issue.

This is a timing chain tensioner problem. I got this around 35K miles and got it fixed (warranty). No problem now.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:17 pm

Maria Winslow wrote:

BriceJohnson wrote:

My wife's car only gets ~26 mpg.

FYI, I get 29.5, and never miss an opportunity to waste gas.

BriceJohnson wrote:

If you start looking at the turbo's, look up "Cold start issues" or "Death rattle" on either motoringfile or northamericanmotoring and take a peak. Its a pretty serious issue.

This is a timing chain tensioner problem. I got this around 35K miles and got it fixed (warranty). No problem now.

Interesting because a lot of people say that it is the hydraulic lifters draining and taking a long time to re-prime such that the valves slap against the head. Has this been ultimately fixed in the 09/10 MCS?

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:52 pm

David Spratte wrote:

Well, if anybody talented had ever run one. . . .

True. I believe I got barely raw timed by a GS Mini by a driver that was decent, not spectacular

- AB

Michael Czeiszperger · **Joined:** Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:35 am **Posts:** 861

[quote="Maria Winslow"
This is a timing chain tensioner problem. I got this around 35K miles and got it fixed (warranty). No problem now.[/quote]

Quote:

Interesting because a lot of people say that it is the hydraulic lifters draining and taking a long time to re-prime such that the valves slap against the head. Has this been ultimately fixed in the 09/10 MCS?

The dealer drove all the way to Chapel Hill, left us a nice John Cooper Works model to abuse, er enjoy for a few days, worked on the timing change tensioner, and then drove our car all the way back and dropped it off. There's no cold start rattle now at all. I know very little about engines, but if it was the lifters, then how would messing with the timing chain tensioner make the rattle go away?

JamesShort · **Posted:** Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:31 am

Michael Czeiszperger wrote:

[quote="Maria Winslow"
This is a timing chain tensioner problem. I got this around 35K miles and got it fixed (warranty). No problem now.

Quote:

Interesting because a lot of people say that it is the hydraulic lifters draining and taking a long time to re-prime such that the valves slap against the head. Has this been ultimately fixed in the 09/10 MCS?

The dealer drove all the way to Chapel Hill, left us a nice John Cooper Works model to abuse, er enjoy for a few days, worked on the timing change tensioner, and then drove our car all the way back and dropped it off. There's no cold start rattle now at all. I know very little about engines, but if it was the lifters, then how would messing with the timing chain tensioner make the rattle go away?[/quote]It wouldn't. I'm going to try to find that thread I was reading a few months ago where a large number of gear heads actually said it had nothing to do with the timing chain tensioner and was due to the hydraulic lifter adjusters.

Regardless, I'm glad in your case the TCT fixed it !

Michael Czeiszperger · **Joined:** Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:35 am **Posts:** 861

JamesShort wrote:

It wouldn't. I'm going to try to find that thread I was reading a few months ago where a large number of gear heads actually said it had nothing to do with the timing chain tensioner and was due to the hydraulic lifter adjusters.

Regardless, I'm glad in your case the TCT fixed it !

Yup, I read that thread as well. The North American Motoring forum is full of people complaining, and without seeing and hearing their cars in person its hard to say what, if anything, was wrong with their cars, and its impossible to tell the bullshitters from the people who know what they're doing. I am loathe to believe the tortured conspiracy theory when dealers and MINI have every incentive to keep us coming back. That and none of them can explain how replacing timing-chain parts fixes the problem if the noise is really coming from somewhere else. With 28K miles Maria's car now purrs like a kitten even a 32 degrees.

For what its worth, our experience with Flow MINI has been better than any other dealer, but of course the bar has been set extremely low by the local VW dealer:-).

Her Cooper-S had a few minor cosmetic trim issues which were fixed back to new condition. The cold start rattle was fixed for free under warranty and we didn't even have to leave the house. I'm planning on getting a MINI as my next car, either a JCW Clubman that would be fun on the track, or the performance version of the Countryman expected to be available on 2012.

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

Dustin Fredrickson wrote:

RodneyWright wrote:

...I'm considering changing to something I can thrash around and still get good mileage.

IMO, this doesn't really exist. Sure, you'll burn a bit more gas in your V8 than a smaller car, but you'll be on the gas in that MCS too, and I'd bet the gas savings aren't much, if any -- at least for those times when you spend a bit of time having fun.

FWIW, I get about the same gas mileage in the M3 as I do in the underpowered 2.2L Subaru and the 1.6L Miata. Whatever the difference is, you'l likely never recoup the savings from the inevitable losses of buying and selling a vehicle. But as if often the case with us, it sounds like that itch for a new ride is growing within, regardless of the justifications :-)

I think the gas mileage thing is just a smokescreen. Rodney likes German cars. While I think I think Rodney made FS very interesting with his continuously improving performance last year, if the Mustang isn't his cup of ... um. hefe-weizen, then he should do what he really wants to do. Personally, I don't think he'll be satisfied until he's in an M3.

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:23 pm

Arthur McDonald wrote:

I think the gas mileage thing is just a smokescreen. Rodney likes German cars. While I think Rodney made FS very interesting with his continuously improving performance last year, if the Mustang isn't his cup of ... um. hefe-weizen, then he should do what he really wants to do. Personally, I don't think he'll be satisfied until he's in an M3.

It's just a sickness I'm dealing with. Some days I like the mustang and some days I don't. Ever feel that way? The car has everything I was looking for, but somethings missing.

I did look at a e46 M3, but that's a high maintenance beast. I will say the brakes on the M3 were light years ahead of the mustang. I'm sure I keep the mustang this year and the Bullitt still holds a soft spot for me. Prices are almost down to my price point. I think over the next few weeks I'll look at the Mini along w/ a honda s2k, subu WRX and an EVO if I can find one. Again, head room is my enemy.

It wouldn't be the ultimate autox car, but I'd like an e46 330i convert w/ the ZHP package. I think I'd be very happy w/ that combo. I could stay in stock class and not worry about head room.

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:22 pm

RodneyWright wrote:

It's just a sickness I'm dealing with. Some days I like the mustang and some days I don't. Ever feel that way? The car has everything I was looking for, but somethings missing.

You should try modifying it. Start by pulling those stock drag racing springs off of the car.

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