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 Post subject: LED lighting
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 8:15 pm 
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I'm looking at some alternatives to lighting in the house. Trying to be green and save a few bucks in the long run. I've got some CF lights, but I like the idea of the newer technology. The problem is, I can't find anywhere local that sells household LED light bulb replacements.

I'd rather go local as opposed to ordering offline to start since I've got no real clue what it's going to look like and how the output is going to be. Some of them will direct straight in one line, while others will reflect all over and give you a wide coverage.

Anybody have any local contacts where I can go and see some LED lighting first hand?

Oh yeah, the 50,000 hour life span of a single bulb is really inviting as well. :D


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 8:36 pm 
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Let me know what you find- I'd be interested as well. Last time I checked(not too thoroughly, a couple months ago) all that fit in a regular-size screw socket had only reading-lamp-type output. Which I don't fully understand, considering how bright those LED traffic lights are. Maybe those cost a thousand bucks each? :whoknows:

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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 8:47 pm 
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I don't have much "light" to shed on this topic other than you do have to remember that it's okay for traffic lights to be somewhat directional (and is usually desired, in fact). And that's the deal with LED...they are directional in nature. Doing something about that is somewhat hard.

I do know a couple companies have recently come out with pretty good low voltage lights made for RVs and homes (but usually puck style lights for places like kitchens and such) that are LED and have a decent spread. I haven't seen anything that goes in a regular socket, but then again I haven't really looked.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 9:44 pm 
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Try here

http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/SearchProducts.asp?categoryID=572&curpage=1&rows=ALL

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 11:21 pm 
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Well what really turned me on to these was when we replaced the 20 lights in our foyer at the office with 100 LED light Can's. They turned the place into a very visible location finally, and they dropped the temp in that space by about 7 degrees.

I've found numerous sites online that will sell practically anything LED. But I just don't want to buy something at 15-30 dollars for one light to find out that I can't see squat with what I just purchased.

Now if the sites will honor a true no hassle return policy, then I would have no issues buying a light and sending it back if it isn't what I anticipated. But most places that I've dealt with that have new technology like this (the household side of things that is) don't have a hassle free return policy. :?

Well, I'll continue to search.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 11:57 pm 
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Try dedicated lighting stores like University Lights. It's on 15-501 just north of New Hope Commons (and on the same side). I have no idea if they have those in the store, but it would be a good start...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 12:51 am 
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The short answer is ... you have to wait, it doesn't exist yet. Let me correct that -- high-output, pleasing, long lasting LED lights DO exist, they are just prohibitively expensive, like $100+:

http://www.ccrane.com/geobulb/index.aspx

What you want to look at is the output of incandescents in lumens to compare to LED:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb

60W = 850 lumens
100W = 1700 lumens

The $119 C Crane led light draws 8W and makes 800 lumens, so it's roughly equivalent to a 60w light bulb.

I think the biggest challenge is making a broad spectrum from LED, and getting the output per component high enough so that it doesn't need to be a big array. I'm confident the technology will get there, eventually.

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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 12:56 am 
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FYI, wikipedia has an excellent article on LED lamps including the current challenges, below. One thing I have not run across yet is any type of a hybrid lamp with a low-power red incandescent or even orange neon supplementing the bluish, spiky spectrum of LED...

Challenges

The current manufacturing process of white LEDs has not matured enough for them to be produced at low enough cost for widespread use. There are multiple manufacturing hurdles that must be overcome. The process used to deposit the active semiconductor layers of the LED must be improved to increase yields and manufacturing throughput. Problems with phosphors, which are needed for their ability to emit a broader wavelength spectrum of light, have also been an issue. In particular, the inability to tune the absorption and emission, and inflexibility of form have been issues in taking advantage of the phosphors spectral capabilities.

More apparent to the end user, however, is the low Color Rendering Index (CRI) of current LEDs. The current generation of LEDs, which employs mostly blue LED chip + yellow phosphor, has a CRI around 70, which is much too low for widespread use in indoor lighting. (CRI is used to measure how accurately a lighting source renders the color of objects. Sunlight and some incandescent lamps have a perfect CRI of 100, while white fluorescent lamps have CRI varying from the 50s to 95.) Better CRI LEDs are more expensive, and more research & development is needed to reduce costs. End user costs are still too high to make it a viable option, for instance, Maplin's website quotes comparable LED spots at £9.99 GBP[3] against the standard Halogen lamp twin pack which comes in at £6.49 GBP[4] (or roughly £3.25 GBP each).

Variations of CCT (color correlated temperature) at different viewing angles present another obstacle against widespread use of white LED. It has been shown, that CCT variations can exceed 500 K, which is clearly noticeable by human observer, who is normally capable of distinguishing CCT differences of 50 to 100 K in range from 2000 K to 6000 K, which is the range of CCT variations of daylight.

LEDs also have limited temperature tolerance and falling efficiency as temperature rises. This limits the total LED power that can practically be fitted into lamps that physically replace existing filament & compact fluorescent types. R&D is needed to improve thermal characteristics.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 1:01 am 
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One more interesting article. The big question about the future of LEDs is how you "slow down" the frequency of blue-tinted white light (without causing inefficiencies). Not an easy task. These guys seem to be on the right track with nanocrystals which somehow re-emit the absorbed photons in a wider spectrum. I'd love to learn how that works.

http://technology.newscientist.com/chan ... news_rss20

Crystal coat warms up LED light

Topping LEDs with a coating of carefully tuned nanocrystals makes their light warmer and less clinical, a new study shows. The researchers argue this is a must for energy-efficient LED lights to make headway in the commercial market.

Illuminating buildings accounts for about a quarter of the electricity used in the US, according to the Department of Energy. Because most of that electricity comes from coal-fired power plants, lights account for a significant amount of greenhouse gas emissions.

LEDs have the potential to be far more efficient than other lights, but face two major hurdles. Firstly, they trail behind fluorescent lights for efficiency and, secondly, the colour of typical commercial LEDs isn't pure white.

Most emit a "cool" light with a bluish tinge, sometimes called "lunar white", that most people find unattractive in the home. Now researchers have used nanocrystals to create LEDs that give off a warm white light.
Fine-tuned light

Their LEDs have a high "colour rendering index" of more than 80 out of 100, meaning objects will tend to appear their usual colour under the light. That is similar to the best fluorescent lights, but behind incandescent bulbs which define the index with a benchmark of 100.

To accomplish this, Hilmi Volkan Demir and colleagues at Bilkent University in Ankara, Turkey, coated blue LEDs with a layer of nanocrystals. These crystals are made from a core of cadmium selenide with a surrounding layer of zinc sulphide.

The crystals absorb some of the LED's blue output and emit their own red and green light. That combines with the remaining blue light to produce a soft white glow.

Existing commercial white LEDs are also based on blue LEDs. But they use a phosphor coating that converts some blue light into a broad spectrum of yellow light. When mixed with remaining blue light the result is a harsh blue-hued white.

Nanocrystals emit light in a much tighter range of wavelengths than phosphor, making it possible to fine-tune the colour produced, Demir says. "Using combinations of nanocrystals, one can generate any emission spectrum as desired," he told New Scientist.
Visible gains

The researchers used two different sizes of nanocrystals, which emit particular wavelengths of either green light or red light. The right mix of the two combines with blue light from the base LED to make a warmer white with twice as much red as blue or green.

The final LEDs were also better than commercially available LEDs at creating visible light, giving off more than 300 lumens of visible light for every watt of all light emitted. This figure, known as the "luminous efficacy", is high compared to typical white LEDs.

Carefully choosing the nanocrystals used tunes the light spectrum emitted towards frequencies that the human eye is most sensitive to. Typical white LEDs are less well matched to human eyes and provide only about 30 to 60 lumens of visible light per watt of light emitted.

"The reported values are remarkable," says In-Hwan Lee of Chonbuk National University in Jeonju, South Korea. But problems still remain, he adds. "Making the core-shell nanocrystals is quite difficult."

Journal reference: Applied Physics Letters (DOI:10.1063/1.2833693)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 8:24 am 
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Thanks. We actually have a University Lights over here near me (about 15 minutes) so I won't have to go all the way to the Durham area to check out what they have. This might be productive.

As for C.Crane and their products. Those were some of the first one's that I found that looked like they would do what I was looking for. But you're right, they are just a little expensive to start off with. If CA was only just a little bit closer. :wink:

I guess if University doesn't carry anything, then my quest will have to be put on hold unless I decide to just go with C.Crane and hope for the best.

Thanks again.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 8:41 am 
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Support your local LED lighting manufacturer. Linky You can click on the "where to buy" link and search for places that have them in stock. I've never been there but, I think House of lights in Cary has them set up so you can check them out.

The only thing we offer now that it is a screw in replacement, is a can type down light. So you can replace flood lamps but not standard bulbs. The color of the light is warmer than the cooler blue tint refered to in the articles Mike quoted.

If you want something to screw into your regular lamp sockets I would honestly wait a little while. Maybe buy CF lamps this time and when they die it will probably be a much better time for LEDs. I honestly think LED lighting is the wave of the future and like most new tech if you want to be the first on your block to have it, you will have to pay for the honor. The technology to make a working, warm yellow color, replacement lamp exists today, the main challenge is making it cost effective for general usage.

Shawn

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 9:21 am 
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I think those LR6's are what we got. They look a whole lot like them. I'll have to glance at the box on Tuesday to confirm.

I'll also check out House of Lights and see what they have to offer. They're close to the office anyway, so it's not a bad haul either. :wink:

Thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 9:56 am 
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Cosby said "Well what really turned me on to these was when we replaced the 20 lights in our foyer at the office with 100 LED light Can's. They turned the place into a very visible location finally, and they dropped the temp in that space by about 7 degrees. "

-If you're looking to save some serious money in the long run, consider putting energy reflecting film on your windows. Check out the ceramic series from Huper Optiks: http://www.huperoptikusa.com/products_klasse.cfm

I had my south, east, and west windows, along with my skylights, tinted a couple of months back with select films blocking between 56% - 70% of the solar energy entering my windows. Payback will be in a few years based on enery savings. Excellent visibility, warranty, and solar protection.

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