THSCC Forums

You won't get me to agree with you on that.

I use 4 tight straight straps and 2 sorta tight angled ones. Different cars have different tie-down needs.

- Straight resists roll and fore/aft movement better than angled.
- Angled resists side-to-side motion better than straight.

Best bet: At least 2 of each.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Mike, I have to disagree. A car can move in all three rotational possibilities on a trailer, much like a boat may. No one moors a boat using the shortest ropes possible (fore and aft tied to their respective closest posts). They rope the fore to a more aft post and vice versa. It comes down to the angle of the tiedown to the post, and having a more acute angle allows the tiedown to be more effective.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

While we're on the topic of towing safety, let me pass on another lesson I learned from someone:

DON'T use cheap-o yellow open-hook straps! They work just fine when tight, but if an open-hook strap ever loosens, and the car shifts around at all, the repeated shock load CAN open the hooks up and they will slip off.

Use only the closed end fat-C style that all the racer parts places sell.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Maybe you didn't get my point. I say use BOTH angled and straight. I was disagreeing with Brad's contention that you MUST use angled.

I recall a story of someone flipping an enclosed trailer with a car that was only held down with angled straps, and the car was able to roll off of two tires and hit the wall of the trailer. Think about it - angled straps only don't resist roll well AT ALL.

Plus, as I said, some cars (like mine) CAN'T use angled in the front at the normal attachment points. I use the following:

- Angled in the back for roll and side-to-side anchoring
- Straight in the front for acceleration anchoring AND to retain rear strap tension
- Straight in the back to provide braking anchoring.

My car ain't a boat.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

http://img82.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img82&im ... ler1yl.png

This mad tyte y0 drawing can better explain what I'm trying to say: In the left-hand one, there is very little keeping the car from shifting left to right which may mean that in an emergency situation, your trailer can steer your tow vehicle's rear end. Which on the good/bad scale would be bad. The one on the right would keep such sliding from happening.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Mike, you are confusing the hell out of me. Would you use straight only? If not, then aren't you saying that you must use angled too?

FWIW, I did the double X like Wes's drawing on my e30, so you could do the same if you wanted Mike.

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Rich
http://www.v8mongrel.com/

What do the drop axles cost and is there any reason that you wouldn't want to get these? I would think the center of gravity would be better and you wouldn't need extra long ramps.

Tim

I can think of three reasons...one is ground clearance. If you drive and park on smooth surfaces, then you are okay. If you are trying to back in over a curb or steeper driveway, you may have problems. The other is resale. I can sell my trailer to almost anyone including people in construction. The final reason is that my car sits higher and a little more out of the way of road debris from the truck....

You do not need long ramps. I do use wood extensions to reduce the angle. he other metod was to raise the front of the trailer when loading the car.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

I wouldn't use straight only if possible. (For the reasons Wes points out)

I wouldn't use angled only if possible. (For roll tension problems and performance under braking)

I would recommend one pair straight and one pair angled. Best of both worlds. Preferreably straight on the rear and angled on the front.

I thought I said that in my first post!

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

As if this probably hasn't been "clarified to death" already :

For my 950 lb open wheel formula car I use "straight tiedowns in front (connect from the bottom of the front uprights to D rings in front of the tires) and "angled tiedowns" in the rear (connecting at the transaxle and going to D rings just behind the tires).

Each tie down is the heavy duty 10,000 lb rated ratcheting style. The tie downs actually connect to short straps which have rings sewn in them at each end. I wrap the short straps around various parts of the car and connect the latches of the tiedowns to the integral rings of the straps. When the straps were new I was more worried about the tieddowns, etc. being stolen off the trailer than I was with the race car being stolen!!!

The rear tiedowns, even though they are almost horizontal (parallel to the trailer deck) "tend" to hold the car chassis down to reduce suspension bouncing. The fronts don't since they attach to the uprights at the wheels.

Note that I assume that even these heavy duty straps will have "some" stretch.

I also assume that the race tires will lose some air pressure beyond the normal "cool down" so for long tows I monitor both strap tightness and air pressure.

Dick (former safety engineer and Boy Scout)

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

That reminds me. If you have new straps, the first time you get caught in a downpour, make a note to check them afterwards. They tend to stretch when they first get wet. At least mine did.

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Rich
http://www.v8mongrel.com/

Thank you for the great feeback. I'm going to drive down on Saturday morning to talk with Kraftsman. Since you have to pay 3% when you register the trailer with DMV do you still have to pay sales tax to the vender?

Thanks,
Tim

IIRC, you don't have sales tax, just the 3% "road use" tax.

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Marvin McBride
Spec Miata #62

I was wondering what makes the Kraftsman better than the Kaufman. It looks like the Kaufman has 3 beams that go from the trailer to the hitch and it has a swing up jack. Any other significant differences?

TIA,

Tim

Gee, I guess I never followed this thread after posting.
Regarding straps, what I MEANT to describe was: In order to secure the car to the Kraftsman trailer, tie-down straps attach with the requisite "C" hooks to the rings welded to the deck of the trailer. (I use the tie-down loops on the car as attachment points.) On my Kraftsman trailer, said rings are oriented parallel to the axis of the trailer. Consequently, the load vector is not a straight pull on the ring, but off-axis at an angle less than 90-deg. For rings of this nature, that is not the optimum condition.

My suggestion was to have your trailer builder weld the rings on the deck so that the straps, when in place, will impart a straight pull on the ring, rather than an off-axis pull.

Mike is absolutely correct that a combination of angled and straight straps is the best combination to secure the load.

The most important strap is one which I have failed to install (!). It's the one that is on-centerline with the vehicle and trailer, running from some secure attachment in the center-rear of the car, directly rearward and attaching to the trailer. This is the strap which secures the car from moving forward in the event of a severe braking incident. The physics for this scenario are much better than with angled straps.

Problem is, where to attach this fifth strap to the racecar? I'm still procrastinating over implementing this improvement.

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Brad