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 Post subject: Bus/ Trailer Fund
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:48 pm 
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Scott Johnson and I started it with $20 each at the last club meeting. Thats not quite going to get it done. Who else is ready to step up to the plate?? That new bus and trailer has a spot for your name.......

Ron


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 Post subject: money for the bus/trailer?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:21 pm 
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is someone going to be collecting contributions at the christmas party?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:21 pm 
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Captain Caution !
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May I suggest a PayPal link? Post it here, on the email list and on the main page of THSCC.COM.

Simon


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:38 pm 
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Good suggestion Simon. Will have to talk to the powers that be and see if we can do that. However, hate to give up the 3% commissoin to paypal....

Yes, I'm sure we will be collecting at the Christmas party. Just need to make up a collection container. Anyone have a piggy bank that looks like a bus??


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:05 pm 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:22 pm 
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Is this request for money serious? I understand that things have gotten more expensive, but why would we have gone ahead (without a single vote on the matter) to buy a bus that needs a trailer, and not have enough funds to cover it?

Honestly, it makes zero sense to me. - AB

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:18 am 
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Nay
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The matter was handed over to a committee which was given the power to decide what to do without a further vote.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:08 am 
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You gotta race the truck
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Aaron Buckley wrote:
Is this request for money serious? I understand that things have gotten more expensive, but why would we have gone ahead (without a single vote on the matter) to buy a bus that needs a trailer, and not have enough funds to cover it?

Honestly, it makes zero sense to me. - AB


What?


Let's see......

Expenses's have gone up both for sites and the bus. Attendance is down. The old bus needs 1500-2K a year to keep going. Our income has gone down from events and other clubs events.

Is it really that hard to see?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:15 am 
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Adam Ligon wrote:
What?


Let's see......

Expenses's have gone up both for sites and the bus. Attendance is down. The old bus needs 1500-2K a year to keep going. Our income has gone down from events and other clubs events.

Is it really that hard to see?


Viper netted us $1300 in profit (we netted $1800 the year prior). We got a payment from the EV challenge from the previous year's work this year. Our autocross events aren't that big a loser, considering we had over $7k in the account last year. The new bus was $3k. Selling the old bus has to negate at least $500, hopefully more.

I think the problem lies in the autocross program funding other programs, honestly.

The reason attendance is down is due to the membership requirement not allowing people to pre-register. It was only 2 years ago that we were selling out about every event, and the economy then certainly wasn't better than today.

So, what was your point Adam? - AB

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:18 am 
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Got Powah?
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Aaron Buckley wrote:
Is this request for money serious? I understand that things have gotten more expensive, but why would we have gone ahead (without a single vote on the matter) to buy a bus that needs a trailer, and not have enough funds to cover it?

Honestly, it makes zero sense to me. - AB


Aaron - and anyone else who wants to know more about all of this - please give me a call. I'd be happy to talk your ear off about it. I'm just executing the decisions of the officers and staff :)

Short answer - long term, we'll be saving money. But right now, the officers and staff have decided to not raise entry fees for next year, and so we're asking for donations to cover the expense.

So, Aaron, have you gotten more out of the club than you have put into it at $20 per event? If so, then cough up some extra dough :) I know of several club officers who have volunteered to pay in at least as much as we have gotten for "free" from a year's worth of entry fees (myself included).

And YES, there will be a donation box at the Christmas party! And a signup sheet for the names of all of those who volunteer some money if you would like to see your name on the bus!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:21 am 
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You gotta race the truck
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Aaron Buckley wrote:

Let's see......

So, what was your point Adam? - AB


My point?

That you are being narrow minded. The EV challange is gone next year. We are down $3k from the income as a club from last year. The old bus was a money pit, and when you look at the yearly expenses of the old bus the new one will be paid for in 3yrs.

And wow it is so bad to ask people in the club to pitch in on the new bus. How shallow of me and the others :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:54 am 
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proud papa!!1!
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Adam Ligon wrote:
Let's see......

Expenses's have gone up both for sites and the bus. Attendance is down. The old bus needs 1500-2K a year to keep going. Our income has gone down from events and other clubs events.

Is it really that hard to see?


Not taking sides here, because I see both sides of the issue, just adding insight from both sides (because I've struggled with both).

Adam, if your business had the problems you stated above, would you think "Gee, now's a good time to go out and buy a new truck?" If so, I won't be investing. Expenses are up, revenue is down, only the federal government can afford to spend *more* money in that situation - but in their case money DOES grow on trees.

Aaron- I am sympathetic with your desire for the membership to have a say in major capital projects. It's not just autocross money that pays for the bus. Membership dues go into the same account. Lately, a lot of those members are track drivers only. I don't think they thought they would be financing the autocross program. On the other hand, we (the officers) determined that the bus was a major money pit, and lately, expenses have been nearly doubling annually. It doesn't take much math to determine that a newer, more reliable vehicle with lower maintenence costs will pay for itself within a few years.

I think that some folks are concerned with the order of operations here. Ideally it would have been.

1) We need a new bus.
2) Lets's raise money for a new bus.
3) Buy a new bus.
4) Sell the old bus.

Unfortunately, the world isn't that simple. We got a *screaming* deal on the new bus. We bought it without the input that several members would have liked the opportunity to express - but the decision to allow that purchase was voted on by the entire Staff, from the Webmaster to the President, so it was a good cross section of the club.

It happens that someone is already interested in buying the old bus (something I honestly didn't believe was possible). This puts us in an unanticipated pinch, so now we've arrived in this situation.

I don't think the dispute is over the *need* for a new AX bus, but the process of deciding when/what/where.

Since we've already made this bed, lets figure out the best way to sleep in it most comfortabally.

For future capital purchases, someone might want to propose that we allow time for member comment (much like the SCCA but over a shorter span) and then vote on it at a meeting. If that's what you (or others) would like, then the issue will need to be raised at a meeting, not on a message board.

Adam has touched on a few other issues that the club is facing, but I'd like to assure everyone that the staff is aware of these issues and is already taking steps that will help decrease expenses (and increase revenues). We'll be rolling these things out in the not to distant future. The first (expect the official proposal early next week) will be the opportunit to pre-pay for the season. This has some benefit for stabilizing the finances, and it also will provide an early '05 influx of cash to help offset early new-bus expenses.

Scott


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:08 am 
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scottjohnson wrote:
The first (expect the official proposal early next week) will be the opportunit to pre-pay for the season. This has some benefit for stabilizing the finances, and it also will provide an early '05 influx of cash to help offset early new-bus expenses.


Cool. The new Tarheel Bond. Buy now, redeem later for event registrations! Perhaps with the next capital purchase we can pursue other creative financing options such as a lease!

I only say that because I presume folks will get a discount for pre-paying (otherwise few would bother). I don't personally have a problem with the mechanism, but I do find it ironic that the club would do that yet wouldn't be willing to eat the 3% paypal fee to let people donate via paypal.


--Donnie


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:30 am 
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Donnie Barnes wrote:
I only say that because I presume folks will get a discount for pre-paying (otherwise few would bother). I don't personally have a problem with the mechanism, but I do find it ironic that the club would do that yet wouldn't be willing to eat the 3% paypal fee to let people donate via paypal.


--Donnie


You're making me roll out the proposal before I finish writing it...

It won't be a huge discount, decreasing club revenue isn't the goal of pre-pay, it's being implemented because membership wants it.

In a nutshell (without ANY of the fine print that will be attached at next week)...

The current proposal (as loosely agreed upon by the AX officers):
$160 to cover 8 points events, that includes a 2 day event in the summer (so you save a whopping $10-20). That isn't the carrot though. FOr that money, you will get on the pre-reg list for ALL the autocrosses as soon as the schedule is published. No more trying to remember to sign up, waiting for the passcode, etc. You can be part of that eliteist group (TM) that has their names there all year long!

You also lock in the price of $20 per event. If we run a more expensive site and charge more, you still pay $20.

Test and Tunes, schools and non-points events will not be included in the cost.

In '05 we had 23 people run all 8 events. I've not yet had the opportunity to run the numbers for who ran 6 or 7 events (that's at home, I'm not at home), but for now, I don't think it is a good idea to make the "perk" be a big financial one (as outlined above). The season pre-registration will be the perk. Honestly, I am not expecting more than 10-20 people to take advantage of this proposal for 2005.

It *will* be available as a Christmas gift if your spouse/significant other/mother/father needs an idea.

As for PayPal fees... I see no reason to support PayPal unless there is some urgency/need to do so. If people can pay cash or send a check they pay the same thing and the club gets more, it's a win-win for us. We allow PayPal for individual events because it saves a fair bit of administration on event day when there isn't time for administration. It's just not hard to collect donations and take them to the bank as time permits.

That said, I doubt we will refuse many donations, no matter what the source.

Scott


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:58 am 
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You gotta race the truck
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scottjohnson wrote:
Adam, if your business had the problems you stated above, would you think "Gee, now's a good time to go out and buy a new truck?" If so, I won't be investing. Expenses are up, revenue is down, only the federal government can afford to spend *more* money in that situation - but in their case money DOES grow on trees.


Scott


If I was planning to stay in said business then to not but the new vehicle would be dumb.

As I pointed out in 3 yrs the decrease in maintanence costs pay for the new vehicle. That is how smart businesses are run, much like autox'ing you have to actually look ahead not just in front of you :wink:

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