THSCC Forums

As far as "racing" goes, I didn't get serious about it until I had my Jetta, starting last year; I don't consider the first 5 or so events I did in '02 in a truck really noteworthy.

Thanks for the backup Kevin.

I list the stuff on my website instead of in a profile or signature just because I figure if folks want to know that much about me, they can look it up. Wes took the trouble to do just that, so apparently at least someone looks at my website!

coughdirtysteeenkincheatercough

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

No it really doesn't in isolation. If you started ignoring the other people in your class or refusing to talk to people who walk up to you or complain loudly about how many n00b's are in your way during course walks or any of 1000 other nasty things then people would start wondering. Case in point: I was at an event where two people walked by my car and started talking sotto voce about how all these Subaru people were taking over and how much they disliked it. They clearly weren't joking and also clearly thought I didn't hear them. It was very uncool and definitely seemed highly arrogant to me.

I don't think it's productive or wise for Mike to start outing people on this semi-public forum. As he said, if he wants to talk directly to anyone he feels is throwing an attitude that should be something done in person.

I do think this whole discussion (well at least the part that isn't about cowbells and wrestlers) is a good one to have. Like it or not every single member of Tarheel has inherited a reputation as being part of an elitist and arrogant club. We have to deal with it, accept it, and (hopefully) do things that reduce that perception to people in other clubs. This club has a well earned reputation for excellence. Maybe it can throw off its other reputation over time...

--Kevin H.

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2003 WRX (again!)

If you want an example of something that makes others think we are elitist just look at the cover of the Heel & Toe. We are
"North Carolina's Premeier Amateur Motorsports Organization" Is that a concrete example that does not out anybody?

This phrase came into being during the Kurt Spitzner years as a joke.

My voting against everybody is a tradition started by Vance Swift (member # 007). As Vance told me he was turned down for membership several times by the club. At the time he and his son were cleaning up in Rally trophys. After Vance was finally allowed to join he voted against every application. Since I had known Vance since the mid '70s I felt his tradition should be kept alive since his passing on. So don't take it personally when I vote against you. I don't hate you I don't like anybody.


BTW I thought the Cowbell skit was not particularly funny.

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George Bright Member # 141
One of the youngest of the old farts.
Yes I voted against you joining the club.

thank you Kevin Hoff for providing specific examples of arrogant behavior. that's all I was asking for. not sure if this is the kind of behavior that Mike's talking about, but if it is, that sucks.

Does all this mean that I need to stop making fun of Triad during our meetings?

I don't think so

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Now I don't know what's been said, but I do know what I have been known to say (and even put in the newsletter)



Really?

I mean, do you think that someone saying "There's too many Subarus around here lately, they're everywhere" is "elitist?" If it was something more direct than that, then okay, thats a different matter altogether.

Is me poking fun at Adam Ligon (which I would think should be obvious to anybody reading the meeting minutes) for liking VWs "elitist?"

Do I need to tone it down in the minutes? Do people not within the "inner circle" just not get it?

I honestly want to know.

I mean with it coming from a Honda guy it really has no merit anyway RICE!

Now as for this thread sorry but I will have to come out and say the same thing. Either give a specific example of when and where or be queit about it. I mean there are so many vague notions and inuendo that this thread is pretty pointless.

As for it being a semi public forum and out people, so what. If you felt strongly enough to make the post in the first place follow through and be specific. Everyone has opinions, and we all know that joke.

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91 Jetta GLI STS/DSP 111
85 Porsche 944 ASP 11
http://www.blackforestindustries.com

Rice,

No your comments are fine because they are meant to be, and are, funny. In general I think we all know if comments we each make are meant to be demeaning and eliteist.

I think even if we had specific examples it would not "solve" the problem. Some folks might take the offer of help from anyone in THSCC as eliteist. Can't fix that except to not offer help and then we are eliteist because we didn't help!

It alls comes back to just remembering why we do this. Its to have FUN. If you aren't having fun then take a break. After all for most of us its just a was to enjoy a day at the track or autocross, socialize and scrub up some tires!

Ok, here's the point I was trying to make yesterday:

I remember posting a message to the THSCC mailing list about an incident at a VMSC event with a particular individual. I didn't "out" him, but there was enough detail in the description of what happened that some people guessed who it was. I made the point that this was not the kind of behavior we should have at our autoxes, and if anybody saw me do anything like that, to kick me in the nuts.

What I didn't do is post a message on the VMSC forum saying that a certain person in their club is an asshole & they might all try to be nicer to make up for the evil that particular guy spreads through the autox community. I also didn't blame VMSC for his behavior, because I know that most of the guys (and chicks) that I've met in that club are really cool people.

If we have people in our club who are being assholes (or being perceived as assholes - I know I've had a few bad days & may've said something evil that was overheard by somebody in another club), there's really nothing the club can do about it. All we can do is keep doing things the way we do, and if people want to judge our club based on the behavior of 0.1% of the population, that sucks for them. I also want to point out that most, if not all, of the "top drivers" who travel to other clubs' events are also SCCA members, so maybe it's the SCCA that deserves the blame.

I'm admitting being the guilty party. Now, how I offended Mike is still unclear (even to Mike), but I do remember talking with him briefly in grid during the Fieldcrwest CCR event this past Sunday.

I can say that the lack of introduction didn't help, but talking to me in grid during an event, while I'm adjusting shocks, tire pressures and spraying tires usually will not get my 100% focus on the conversation.

I think what might have offended him was that I felt with a LSD in my Celica, it would be a better STX car than Hoppe's WRX in a Tour. Not knowing that Mike is in the process of buying Tom's car, I guess I could see how he could be offended by this, but my statement wouldn't change. I truly believe it.

Regardless, context is always important. I can't tell you the number of people that come up to me at events outside of THSCC and want to talk about the car, my times, their times, what I've done to the car, show me this, show me that, 'how fast does it go', etc. It gets a bit old, and thus at times I may piss people off. Most in the club know I'm friendly and willing to help about anyone out, even though I can talk trash with the best of them. Elitist or arrogant? You be the judge. - AB

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

Well, I think we already knew you were an asshole, Aaron.

j/k

OK, since I subtracted value from this thread earlier, I'll try to add some back...

It's all about the situation when you encounter someone, I'm guessing. Not that Aaron needs anyone to back him up, but I'm gonna.

Over the last few years as Aaron has been one of the upper echelon drivers in club, going to national events, etc., I've seen him do some pretty considerate things and go out of his way like the vast majority of other THSCC members do at every event. Tools have been loaned on numerous occasions, he helped one club member patch a leaking tire, and has ridden with many of us.

My point here is not that Aaron is some saint of motorsports, but that in the wrong situation/context, anybody can come off as an a-hole.

Now for aformentioned VMSCC member, I have heard numerous accounts of him being less than pleasant, and worse. I don't know the guy, but I'll give anybody a chance or two. However, when they continually prove themselves as advertised, I'll happly call it like I see it.

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Tom Freeman
'98 M3/4/5 | '93 Spec3 325i | '12 TSX sport wagon | '03 Tahoe
Team Silver Bullets '91 240SX

Aaron,

Actually that was far from offensive; I found it more thought provoking than anything and I think there is definitely merit to the idea. Like I said, I really don't remember what it was that specifically struck me as having a poor attitude although I did remember coming away with a terrible impression overall. Tom's car is nothing special; it's just a blue WRX with stickers, some parts, and a really good driver.

Honestly if you put the LSD in the Celica and came to chase me down I would be all for it. Nothing like seeing folks kicking my butt to motivate me further. I do however mean to apologize if I was bothering you during car setup; I don't often monkey with my car too much in grid (tire pressures are about it by a couple of pounds) so I tend to forget that other folks make significant setup changes at times like that and I feel badly if I was distracting you from concentrating on the event.

Honestly this is not just an isolated incident, merely the catalyst for prompting me to speak my mind. I've seen others from Tarheel that were rude or snotty and what have you and just kind of let it go at at the time and chalked it up to the whole club image thing; no longer. I'm just saddened that only a few folks actually took this seriously. I'm especially disappointed in Mike Whitney's response.

This is kinda funny. As I'm reading this thread I was about to make a post that said "uhh I apologize for being the elitist asshole" until I saw aaron's post

Aaron, I don't think its anything 1 person did. I've gotten the same thing from other clubs "you guys are elitist" etc etc. I always respond with "yea, we're the best". Its usually joking, but maybe people percieve it as otherwise.

I am VERY guily of being "elitist" a few times. Hell, I've done it at Thscc events when I was having a bad day. I'll try to be better

As far as your car being faster with an LSD at Tours. Puuuuuhlease My (Bigglys) car is receiving a few upgrades over the winter that should give it another 0.5 or so. It will be even more of a screamer next year.

-Tom