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 Post subject: Re: Facebook page goes bad again
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:34 pm 
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Well, that was interesting. :roll:

First off, many thanks to the THSCC officers who remained professional and courteous throughout the whole ordeal. It was pretty obvious that there were a couple of prime instigators, a bunch of "Yeah, what HE said!" background types and then the officers who politely held their ground and made a good decision. Thanks.

Second, rule 7.2 of our bylaws states we follow SCCA classification, so adding L, CAM etc class designations is supported by our bylaws. Insurance may have the last laugh regarding junior karts, so blame Cline and his industry for that :lol:

Third, there are no meaningfully effective NCAC bylaws anymore (at least given the fluidity of Club Cup rules since I first started going to NCAC in 2010, so whoever mentioned that was misinformed). Everything up until 2012 or so has been loose collection of "hey, let's get everyone together and have a big autocross and a good time." That may change now for a couple of reasons. There is a growing contingent of SOOPER SRSBSNS drivers in CCR, which I think is a net benefit to the area, and they have sky-high expectations for events. Additionally, they (CCR) have been trying to show that their region and ZMax could and should support a Tour event of some kind, (despite Sunday quiet hours) and have been progressing towards running their events in a similar fashion. They are quite good at it, it shows in how they perform as a group at Tour events, and I think they derive a sense of pride in that accomplishment. Well played, hat tip, etc.

Naturally, they expect everyone else will be on the same page and will follow suit, and that expectation was not well-communicated to anyone. Instead, they chose an adversarial, confrontational and unpalatable means by which to voice their expectations in a very accusatory tone on our FB page. Not terribly surprised by that. Even though the means of that expression was ill-conceived, we now know the level of expectation.

Where do we go from here? Well, it seems to me NCAC could become its own entity, directed by a small group of representatives from the clubs that want to participate. Club hosting should go away, as there is really only one site in the state people will drive to (even MCASCP was inconvenient for our friends in the Queen City), so why not make it official and keep it at ZMax?

Should the course be lined? Yes--maybe CCR could bring theirs to be used. Should the course maps be published? Of course. Should the FB presence be closed? Definitely not, but it should be moderated.

In regards to Andrew's comment...I understand that sentiment exactly. But I still go to Zmax events as there are some nice people to catch up with, the surface is great and the courses are enjoyable. I have a sincere desire to improve my driving, so I make it a goal to get close to 100 competition runs a season. This (combined with increasing frequency of work-and family schedule conflicts) requires me to be more of an autocross nomad, and so I go to a bunch of CCR Triad and NCR events as the opportunity allows. It's a good thing, and gains me the opportunity to know other folks in different clubs--or if I just want to focus, drive and go home I can do that too (as an introvert this works well for me.) I am too much of a coward to track days (Lack of budget and presence of family notwithstanding) so this is my only gig until the drama llamas drive me out.

Apologies for the long post.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook page goes bad again
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:08 pm 
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Steven Carter wrote:
Should the course be lined? Yes


Nope

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook page goes bad again
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:14 pm 
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BriceJohnson wrote:

Nope


I agree with Brice on this. If we don't line our normal courses, why would we do it for the NCAC. This is a difference in styles that people will have to deal with. - AB

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook page goes bad again
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:15 pm 
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I HATE lined courses!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook page goes bad again
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:19 pm 
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That's fine, and I am no fan of course-lining either. NCR does it, Triad does it, CCR does it. Sometimes a compromise now avoids bigger issues down the line. Who knows. If we did line the course, someone would surely find fault with it right? :stick:

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook page goes bad again
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:50 pm 
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Well thought out points Steven, and I agree.

Maybe I'm spaced out on course walks (probably) but I usually don't even notice the chalk lines half the time unless part of one actually dips into what I think may be the race line.


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 Post subject: Re: Facebook page goes bad again
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:18 pm 
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Respectfully................ I was trying to stick up for you guys...........

I am not a misogynist.

And yes, I am generally up at 10PM on a school night looking for trouble................ 8)

We finished 48th this weekend by the way. Somehow got the clutch too hot, it worked fine on Sunday but we lost 3.5 hours on Saturday. We had it as high as P1 and it broke while in P5.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook page goes bad again
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:28 pm 
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steve remchak wrote:
Respectfully................ I was trying to stick up for you guys...........



I actually agree that despite your mention by name you were not the person(s) being offensive

Steven Carter wrote:
Should the course be lined? Yes--maybe CCR could bring theirs to be used. Should the course maps be published? Of course.


NONONONO. Just because the other clubs jump off a bridge we don't have to follow. They can line their courses we don't have to. I'm like Matt, I never see them when I'm driving. As a club we are more environmentally friendly as well as being more egalitarian in our treatment of women. :sing:

Steven Carter wrote:
Where do we go from here? Well, it seems to me NCAC could become its own entity, directed by a small group of representatives from the clubs that want to participate. Club hosting should go away, as there is really only one site in the state people will drive to (even MCASCP was inconvenient for our friends in the Queen City), so why not make it official and keep it at ZMax?


Sorry, I disagree. If this is going to be a one club hosts then we should host at a venue of the HOST club's choosing. So we all have to bow down to CCR because they want to build a rep? If the other clubs are unwilling to go somewhere else once every 4 years then they can sit at home. We have had NCAC at Danville and we could use NCCAR although that venue is admittedly far 3.5 hrs from Charlotte and everything is far from Western NC. That is not much further than we have to go to Charlotte. I liked Cherry Point and probably would have liked it more if I hadn't spent the first day underneath my car getting doused by anti-freeze. It's not close either but it is fun.

I don't have a problem with most of the folks in the other clubs. There are a few jerks in all the clubs - probably even ours. :shock: And the jerks always seem to be near a keyboard. They just reflect on themselves and because cooler heads from all the clubs prevailed there wasn't any real damage.

Just my $.02

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook page goes bad again
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:57 pm 
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Quote:
Let's have fun, get more than 16 Tarheels drivers out like last year to Z-Max, and I know Rob & Steve will make a smokin' fast and fun course.


Think slow and technical with turn arounds. :wink: Steven and I met tonight to look at some plans. I think we are good to go. The couses use the lot well and minimize logistical issues.

I'm not lining the courses. I asked on the other thread because I thought lining the paddock and grid might be hilariously ironic.

Honestly if our bylaws state SCCA rules I think it might be a time to look at that. SCCA has way too many classes now. We never have more than a handful in one class anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook page goes bad again
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:15 am 
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RobLupella wrote:
We have had NCAC at Danville


It's more than a little bit of a joke to have the NCAC in Virginia.


--Donnie

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook page goes bad again
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:42 am 
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That would be a little ironic to have this in VA again.

Personally, I loved running the NCAC down at Cherry Point a few years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Facebook page goes bad again
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:07 am 
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Rob Keehner wrote:
Think slow and technical with turn arounds.


I vote for at least 3 pivot cones!

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook page goes bad again
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:19 am 
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Arthur McDonald wrote:
Rob Keehner wrote:
Think slow and technical with turn arounds.


I vote for at least 3 pivot cones!


Art has invented a new autox element -- the Pivot Cone Box, i.e. PCB. 200' x 100' box, two pivot cones on each end of 200' dimension.
Enter mid-box on the 200' side and require 90° turn toward pivot cone #1; pivot around that cone then full acceleration to pivot cone #2 at the other end of 200' box; pivot around cone #2 and back the length to the pivot cone #1; pivot around cone #1 again and proceed to exit (which was the entry).

I know I'm a bit ill when I think I might actually enjoy this PCB.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook page goes bad again
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:34 am 
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Keehner actually did something somewhat similar to what you described at Danville once, two pivot cones in a box, but going around each cone only once, with entry and exist to the box at roughly the same point (just going in different directions). It was fun, I enjoyed it. The "nationals snobs" were not amused.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook page goes bad again
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:28 am 
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Donnie Barnes wrote:
RobLupella wrote:
We have had NCAC at Danville


It's more than a little bit of a joke to have the NCAC in Virginia.


--Donnie


True, but it is close to both us and TSCC. You use what you have.

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