It's Been Fun...

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:27 am

noahfleming wrote:

I think some people need to grow a thicker skin...

Like those offended by certain pictures posted on the internet? Not directed at you personally, but to those that were who say we need a thicker skin...pot meet kettle.

I realize the above comment is not constructive, but since I'm REALLY hard to offend, that pushes my buttons.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming... :sleep

JamesMilko · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:32 am

Vincent Keene wrote:

noahfleming wrote:

I think some people need to grow a thicker skin...

Like those offended by certain pictures posted on the internet? Not directed at you personally, but to those that were who say we need a thicker skin...pot meet kettle.

And those saying don't be offended by things.. pot meet kettle.

Also, Can the people who were part of the decision to delete the Facebook photos answer this question. Were the photos deleted because of the content of photos themselves or because of the discussion on Facebook that was happening under their banner? I don't know if it matters to the other people, but to me that is a big distinction.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:43 am

JamesMilko wrote:

And those saying don't be offended by things.. pot meet kettle.

Chicken and the egg. It's a vicious circle.

YoussefGamal · **Joined:** Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:33 pm **Posts:** 21

I think we just need to forgive and forget here. Seems we are entering a circular argument no matter what anyone says. Breaking up into groups of "old timers" and "those who are not old timers" is not beneficial to the club. Clubs go through problems like this and its our choice whether we come out a stronger group because of it, or if we splinter into smaller groups (or lose members).

Aaron, coming from a frequent track attendee, we would love to have you with us. I think we should all try to be tolerant of mistakes and try to let it go. Discussing these things in person is much more constructive than on the forum/facebook.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:17 am

YoussefGamal wrote:

I think we just need to forgive and forget here. Seems we are entering a circular argument no matter what anyone says. Breaking up into groups of "old timers" and "those who are not old timers" is not beneficial to the club. Clubs go through problems like this and its our choice whether we come out a stronger group because of it, or if we splinter into smaller groups (or lose members).

Aaron, coming from a frequent track attendee, we would love to have you with us. I think we should all try to be tolerant of mistakes and try to let it go. Discussing these things in person is much more constructive than on the forum/facebook.

Richard

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:19 am

YoussefGamal wrote:

I can guarantee that 90% of that is internet argument shenanigans.

This is my take too. It's 2014 and waaaaay to many people love to e-bicker, and when it spirals out of control, it develops a black eye on the forum and in the view of other clubs that read our FB wall.

Personally, I was only going to do a handful of events this year to balance the biking and I also like to go to other clubs' events, especially running Cherry Point with the NCR folks. That said, it's been a whole season and I only missed the 2nd NCCAR event and made every one because the THSCC autocross team and volunteers do a great job. Timing, courses (the Jimmy V and this past weekend's courses were probably my favorite two out there in 10 years), number or runs, wireless timing, and safety are what keep me coming back to run. Hell, you guys even make tough lots like Piedmont and the Fayetteville lots flow smoothly and safely. Nice work.

It's a jab to the ribs of the people that volunteer to say they're doing a crumby job, but if the chemistry is different than say 10 years ago, I'm at a loss how to change that. There was a strong club presence and remember hanging with 25-30 people in a hotel lobby or two to cruise out to dinner during two day events. If we're judging the clubs' health as a matter of our reputation & unity, then we have a little work to do but a silly social media 'censorship' mistake shouldn't be the end of the world. Personally, I was more disappointed at NCAC seeing only 12 THSCCers in attendance than overhearing the same two words in unison over & over... 'trophy girls'. I had friends from other clubs asking me what the hell what going on in our club and I just kept it simple and said that things got a bit out of control. A couple folks asked me why everyone is so angry and I laughed and said it was a mystery to me.

Another thing, any decent organization is the sum of it's members, so as Noah said, think before you post because whether you like it or not, you're getting judged so represent yourself and the members who laid the groundwork years ahead of you to make the club what it is today.

Sorry if this seems one sided from an autocross perspective, but that's what I'm familiar with these days.

On a positive note, I still think we're only one good site away from seeing 120 entries again if we can find something within the greater RDU landscape. Easier said than done, but just something to think about since we're in a rebuilding phase in terms of attendance and competitiveness.

-Matt

noahfleming · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:37 pm

I appreciate everyone helping to turn this thread toward a better direction. These "hard times" or whatever one might want to call them are just opportunities for us to improve, find flaws, communicate, and be more professional.

Best,
Noah

Steven Spampinato · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:16 pm

That’s a shame Aaron. I am sorry you feel that way. I never had the chance to meet you.

I am not going to hold back any punches here everyone.

It involves the “glorious past” that I was a part of for a short time. Most club members do not know me. I never stood out, or won events. Infact I could count on one hand haw many Tarheel events I went to every year. I never had the money for track events or had a competitive autocross car. I still do not.

My first exposure with Tarheel Sports Car Club was 1996. I was a 19 old year freshman in college driving my best friend's 84 Jetta. All I remember about the event I was lost. No one ever greeted us nor welcomed us. We were lost.

Never the less I loved the sport. The following season I took my old rag doll of a prelude, still felt lost. It was not that Tarheel was different then other clubs, I felt the same with Triad and CCR. Don’t get me wrong, there were still some nice people out there. Some are still in the club.

There seemed to be others who felt that way too, so in 1998, me a few other guys started SEAC (South East Autocross Club). A separate club that would caravan to the event sites that we enjoyed the most. We even had our own points system and sponsors. We coached each other, helped each other out when needed. We helped other newcomers as well.

Why did we do this?

We never felt like a part of the group.

I never did allot of events, maybe 2-3 THSCC events a year. So I was always like a new face.

I really don’t give a rats ass, what people think about this next statement….all the clubs, including Tarheel, were not novice/newcomer friendly.

I would say the club seemed “clickish” to me. So we made our own and welcomed everyone.

So, yeah, I guess we formed our own…..out of never feeling welcome. We welcomed others, and we grew each event.

SEAC lasted another two years, most of us graduated or moved away. It fizzled out in 2000. Now I cannot speak for 2000 onward…I moved out-of-state until 2005. I came back to the club and autocross in 2009. When I came back, It was like being a novice….but I did not feel the same like I did in the past. The whole culture of Tarheel was different. I felt welcome, people even asked if I needed a ride along. They had a novice walk thru. I was even greeted by club officers during reg.

I felt welcome…..and I can see that in the members and club officers today. That’s why our recent novices are sticking around and some are now club officers in their second year. Yeah we all did not have a common ground on facebook, and the arguing did not make us look good. We should of diced it out here on the forum. I am guilty too.

People are no longer in good will with each other....thats sad. Really sad. lets all stop the finger pointing and get back to what we love the most. SPORTS CARS!

However, to say the club is not the same….yeah you are right….I think it is better than it has ever been.

But then again who am I?

I am sure that is what some of you are thinking. If you are, I do not really give a dam.

If you ever come back, those who left, I will welcome you with open arms. I hope the rest of you do the same!

Steven Spampinato · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:45 pm

shawnwhipple wrote:

I wasn't going to say anything. I'm more of the "quietly fade away" type, but what the heck, I'll give my few cents worth since the subject has been raised. While I'm not at the point of quitting the club, I am planning on seriously dialing back on my participation next year.

My story is this, since I started attending events again a few years ago, I've always picked up a strange, stand-offish, vibe. The closest way I can describe the feeling I get is like I've shown up to a Duke/Carolina game wearing a NC State shirt with dog poop on my shoe. Everyone looks at you like WTF is your deal and why do you smell so bad?

I thought it was because I was a new guy again. It took a while but I realized that I was longer in the "in" crowd. I was once again a "noob" and I would have to pay my dues to be accepted back into the group. Well in my book the way you pay your dues is to help out. Since then, I've chaired events, volunteered for things like the EV challenge, been chief of tech, and helped out with other things behind the scenes. I feel I've done more than I really needed to but I'd rather help out too much rather than not enough. That was the way we did things back in the day. But even after a few years of being helpful, I still get that same weird vibe? I thought I'd I've got the crap off my shoes by now?

It wasn't until the whole trophy girls on FB flap that I began to see things a little more clearly. To my mind at least, a large part of the attitude I've picked up on is based on the fact that I'm one of "those" guys, that ran "that" kind of club. The way that issue was used by many in a weak attempt to prove that they are better than the folks who were in the club back then really showed a complete lack of respect to me and everyone who has been in the club for more than a few years. A lot of the folks that were involved with THSCC "back then" have raised their kids and now have the time and money to get back into motorsports. After a lot of the comments made do you really think those people feel welcome?

Aaron's post is a warning for the club. For every person like Aaron who will say something there are probably 10 more that quietly choose not to participate and spend their money and time elsewhere.

I do not understand the "not in crowd feeling." I did not feel that way when I came back. It was great to see you when you did resurface, I finally had the chance to get to know you. You are a remarkable guy Shawn!

The Facebook post thing....we are all guilty...and I will never forgive myself for being a part of it. I tried silly pics and jokes to get people to relax. I should of just said what Rodney eventually said..."Take it to the forum!"

noahfleming · **Posted:** Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:09 pm

Guys,

All I want to say is that I believe that at this point, this discussion has become important, and we are trying to understand each other. I would really appreciate it if people take the time to think through their posts and try to consider more than your perception. We all just need to communicate.

I think we all agree that we want to feel more welcome, or be more welcoming if we find that someone is not.

I know there are more moving parts here than the fore mentioned, but I think this is key and fundamental. I only ask that people take this into consideration as people interpret text and words differently than most people might intend.

I want this club to use this to become better, and I think we if all have that in the back of our minds ,it will help naturally steer us in the correct direction.

Noah

Roger McDaniels · **Posted:** Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:18 am

I've always felt welcome at THSCC events, and I've been attending them since 2004 or so, some years more than others. I've attended track and autocross events and always felt like this is a great group of people, which is unusual for me as I generally don't like people, especially in groups. I'll never forget one of my early autocrosses with Rob L riding with me as hundreds of baby spiders hatched from where their mother had loving secreted their eggs in the padding of the THSCC loaner helmet and crawled all over my head. I learned a valuable lesson that day; buy your own helmet. I also attend other club's events and I've always thought that THSCC had a very good staff and atmosphere compared to other organizations.

I'm finding myself in agreement with Rob K on this one; I read the originating post more as "I'm upset about what someone did or said on the Internet, so I'm quitting", rather than as a serious commentary on the nature of the club. I was surprised by the inappropriately strong negative emotional responses (notice how out of sensitivity to some people's feelings, I didn't say "butt-hurt"; that's because I'm a sensitive guy) that were generated by the FB incident on both sides of the issue. I don't sympathize with people who get upset about what anyone says on the Internet. Getting worked up about what someone types on the Internet seems like way more work/stress than I want to take on for something that has no possible effect on me.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:53 pm

I thought about this some this weekend. I'm placing a vote Rob Keehner for both President and Autox VP.

It really doesn't matter whether I renew my membership or not, as the reality is that being 2.5-3 hours from any club meeting means that I will never be a truly active club member. I think it's been made pretty clear by multiple posting members that there seems to be strife within the club. What the strife might be still needs to be defined and I would expect that might be an important task by the upcoming regime. - AB

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:44 pm

I'm not voting for anyone. I figure it's "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you." I don't want nobody voting for me for any office, so I'm not voting for them.

That said, if I didn't have a lifetime membership, I'd be out, too. But like Aaron, I'm not participating much anyway, so I guess I'd be no great loss myself.

--Donnie

Roger McDaniels · **Posted:** Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:01 pm

I'm voting for me and Ricky for "Keepers of the Bus". I think we can win this.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:18 am

WOW..................

Just wow, a shit storm that I neither started or participated in..... how did this happen?

I too considered not re-upping but lucky for you all I changed my mind. I am the poster child for this topic it seems but obviously my side is winning at the moment.

I don't volunteer.

I don't offer any useful suggestions.. ( I know this because I am repeatedly shouted down )

I occasionally attend an event. I attended a meeting ... once in 2004.

I am here for selfish reasons..... believe it or not so are a lot of people. While many of you volunteer your time and energy it is hard for me to not say that such efforts are a form of sweat equity. You volunteer so that "you" and others like "you" have a place to play. If someone like "me" comes along and offers an opinion / idea / shitty remark, "you" take offense.

Some of "you" need to get off "your" Mother Teresa High Horse and remember that people who volunteer for others don't publicly insult those people they claim to serve.

Does it / should it piss "you" off? Sure. But guess what....... I don't care. And neither should "you".

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