Apparently we're not terribly friendly

Brett_Murphy · **Joined:** Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:02 pm **Posts:** 355

I was talking to a guy in the LKQ over this past weekend and the subject of the club came up during the conversation of what cars we were getting parts for. I mentioned that I run autocross and rallycross with the club and the very first words out of his mouth were: "I went to one race with you guys a few years back and everybody was really stand-offish and not very friendly."

In a few club meetings the subject of getting new members has come up before. I can't speak of how things were X years ago, but I do suspect that if somebody is confused and feeling lost and they reach out to somebody, all it takes is a comment or response that can be perceived as short of unfriendly to upset them. I think that right now we're doing an alright job with getting novices engaged at the events, but the bad taste might still be lingering for a few folks from their experiences in the past, though.

I may have convinced him to give our events (rallycross in particular) another shot by explaining that we're making an effort at events to get the new people taken care of instead of letting them wander around and try to figure things out for themselves.

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:40 pm

this has come up time and time again. I experienced this when I first starting hanging out w/ the club. Not everyone has a bubbling, out going personality and some folks can come off as rude at first encounter. It's just nature that if you don't know someone, there's no connection. There where a couple of folks I didn't mesh with at first because I was a complete newb, but that's just the way things are.

It's just a matter of perseverance. The friendships will come, you just have to keep going to the events and make yourself known. I was a dork when I first joined, but at least now I'm a dork that everyone knows =)

Tell your friend to come back to an event, even better, come to a meeting. The intensity of racing isn't there.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:14 pm

Yes, we've heard this feedback a few times over the years (everyone was really mean to Remchak apparently

).

My experience (as a relatively new member) was not as such. I quickly jumped into the 2010 TIR class which was somewhat analogous to the healthy STR class we have the last 2 years in terms of the camaraderie and competition. Granted, it's not like my experience or social involvement was limited to only that class, but it surely didn't hurt. My hope with YLN is that maybe new drivers can establish themselves in NOV class and see some multi-event competition in the same class against the same people.

I think at a greater level, car people are frequently egotistical and not very outgoing (I definitely wouldn't classify myself as a social butterfly by any means). So sometimes the feedback could be a result of us not seeking out a new person and taking them under our wing, but sometimes it can also be the attendee them self not allowing that to happen. I've seen a new attendee or novice complain about the event/club who specifically didn't want someone to ride along with them, or weren't willing to accept any constructive criticism.

Anyway, my feeling is that the Novice Coordinators have been doing a great job the last few years and I'm really hoping that comments along these lines will stop popping up. Granted, I wouldn't say that the Nov Coordinators aren't solely responsible for meeting/greeting and keeping new people coming back, but they sure are some of the more accessible of the officers/staff.

Brett_Murphy · **Joined:** Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:02 pm **Posts:** 355

Just to be clear, while I forget the exact year he said he came out, it was three years ago or more. I'm not entirely sure how anybody could be able to complain with the way the novices are being handled at the moment unless they were just looking for stuff to complain about. I've got a thick skin, though.

I did advise Dave (that is his name) he should come to a meeting sometime, even if he doesn't join the club. People are a lot different when they are eating pizza than when they are worrying about tire pressures. Maybe we could ask if there are any new people at the meeting (not just new applicants) and introduce the officers to them in case they have any questions. We may not want to ask them to speak or even introduce themselves at first, though. I don't know- just throwing ideas out.

I do my best to act as an ambassador to the club at events. I try to give a ride along if I can or just discuss whatever car-related topic the novice is interested in to the best of my ability while making sure that they understand that I'm not an expert by any consideration.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:27 pm

I haven't been to an event in a few years, but I do sometimes feel that if it is your first time and you are not already attending with someone who is experienced, that many motorsports events have a bit of a "flash mob" nature to them. That everyone is there for the same reason, you have common interests, but the vast majority of people are strangers to you. I have to wonder if you can have two novices walking in the paddock looking at each other thinking "what a snob".

Richard

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:21 pm

JamesShort wrote:

I think at a greater level, car people are frequently egotistical and not very outgoing (I definitely wouldn't classify myself as a social butterfly by any means).

I have to completely disagree, at least based on my motorsports experience in the last 14 years. Most people (again IME) are very friendly and willing to help total strangers, especially at HPDE events, and even moreso in actual W2W racing. Of course if you are shy it doesn't help, but I've never had that problem. If you can open your mouth, introduce yourself, and aren't afraid to ask a question, I've found the majority of motorsports people very accomodating. There will be the occasional person who isn't of course, but I'd say that person is rare.

Some people (especially these days) seem to have a very thin skin and are so easily offended by every little thing, so the guy Brett speaks of could be one of those types too. Just speculation of course on that one person.

Like Brett, I try to be an ambassador at our events and 'chat it up' with the noobs when I spot them. I think it's easier at rallycross events as we aren't as serious about that last 0.01 on the clock, and if taking a passenger affects the final results we don't care.

Regardless, if I can do more to make the noobs feel welcome I will be glad to do so.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:13 pm

Vincent Keene wrote:

JamesShort wrote:

I think at a greater level, car people are frequently egotistical and not very outgoing (I definitely wouldn't classify myself as a social butterfly by any means).

I have to completely disagree, at least based on my motorsports experience in the last 14 years. Most people (again IME) are very friendly and willing to help total strangers, especially at HPDE events, and even moreso in actual W2W racing. Of course if you are shy it doesn't help, but I've never had that problem. If you can open your mouth, introduce yourself, and aren't afraid to ask a question, I've found the majority of motorsports people very accomodating. There will be the occasional person who isn't of course, but I'd say that person is rare.

Some people (especially these days) seem to have a very thin skin and are so easily offended by every little thing, so the guy Brett speaks of could be one of those types too. Just speculation of course on that one person.

Like Brett, I try to be an ambassador at our events and 'chat it up' with the noobs when I spot them. I think it's easier at rallycross events as we aren't as serious about that last 0.01 on the clock, and if taking a passenger affects the final results we don't care.

Regardless, if I can do more to make the noobs feel welcome I will be glad to do so.

I agree with everything you are saying. My comment was more in regards to Autox/Rallyx coupled with the use of 'frequently' as in not always. You don't generally find absolute car noobs, showing up to an HPDE weekend with $500 for entry and another $200 in pads and a $100 in gas ready to participate in their first motorsports experience.

Generally they've had some experience with Autocross/Karting/Rally(X). But we see a lot of novices who are car people who have a highly modified car (frequently the 'wrong' modifications) who think that their car is incredibly fast etc and they are going to beat all the ricers in the civics. Those type personalities tend to be hard to integrate into and retain in the various programs. Also, these same type of folks are ones that make gripes about us being 'unfriendly' which is somewhat ironic.

On the flip side, we had some girl randomly show up to an autox at NCCAR in a bone stock R18 Civic and enjoyed herself and then came to our meeting and wants to join. Rob must have been really nice to her (and didn't sweat in her car)

.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:25 pm

JamesShort wrote:

You don't generally find absolute car noobs, showing up to an HPDE weekend with $500 for entry and another $200 in pads and a $100 in gas ready to participate in their first motorsports experience.

I wouldn't disagree with "generally" in the above, but it happens a lot more than you would think, sans $200 in pads, as they seem to skip those, but definitely shouldn't!

JamesShort wrote:

But we see a lot of novices who are car people who have a highly modified car (frequently the 'wrong' modifications) who think that their car is incredibly fast etc and they are going to beat all the ricers in the civics. Those type personalities tend to be hard to integrate into and retain in the various programs. Also, these same type of folks are ones that make gripes about us being 'unfriendly' which is somewhat ironic.

I totally agree here. Nothing like having a super modified "fast" car and having your ass handed to you by some old guy in his bone stock 90's Miata. I remember this local guy who talked lots of smack about his hopped-up 5.0 Fox-body. I bet him that he could come to any event and get beat by a lady (Emmie Fisher) in her stock Neon. I tried hard to get him to come out, even went up to $100 on my wager, but he never showed up so I could take his money.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:01 pm

JamesShort wrote:

Yes, we've heard this feedback a few times over the years (everyone was really mean to Remchak apparently

).

I'd just like to point out in that specific case, well, we were right. We just weren't quite mean enough. :lol:

(I kid, I kid!)

--Donnie

JasonWatts · **Posted:** Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:56 pm

I think its just an excuse used because of pride or embarrassment. Had a friend In a sky who said his car was not designed from the factory to be any good at autox. When I argued this, he said I know nothing of his car and I need to shut up.

We can be snoodish, I get that feeling alot. I contribute it to my odd personality and not being competitve enough for people to want my advice (when the goal becomes finishing sideways im sure I will habe people flocking to me).

I talk about the club and get excuse after excuse as to why they cant do it. I give up on those as I know there is no true interest.

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

I am feeling rather snoody today.

clinehall · **Posted:** Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:18 pm

Perhaps if you did something as simple as having a noobie park between a couple of veterans that would help.

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:39 pm

clinehall wrote:

Perhaps if you did something as simple as having a noobie park between a couple of veterans that would help.

That's perhaps the best Idea, I've heard on the forum, for making noobs feel more comfortable at their first event. Everyone that starts this autocross thing is a fish out of water, and for some reason or another tend to migrate off to some corner with other noobs or by themselves. Putting them smack in the middle of experienced folks is a great idea.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:25 am

speaking only for myself, the only time I am near my parking spot is when I am (a) arriving (b) getting ready to go to grid (exactly when I am deliberately ignoring everything around me and mentally preparing to drive) or (c) leaving. That may be a total of 10 minutes over the course of the entire day. On arrival, many of the "veterans" are getting their own cars ready or are handling event prep items, and have limited available time. I agree, though, that a quick wave and greeting can go a long way!

We have Novice meetings and coursewalks (no one said that only the Nov Coordinators are allowed to do these--veterans can come join the fun also!). We had a universally highly-rated Novice school this year. We have started Novice Cup and other awards to make being a Novice more enjoyable, hopefully building camaraderie and friendships through lighthearted competition. We have people standing around near start or cruising through grid looking for Novices and asking them if they want help.

I think that's enough.

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:02 am

I had tried to start this last year, but I didn't follow up on it. My thought was to have anyone in novice class wear a different colored arm band. This puts the onus on the veteran club members to seek out the noobs since they can be spotted by an arm band. This does 2 things.....

> easy to identify and you can approach them to see if they need help
> helps when driving and supports our NO 2 novice drivers in a car. If the starter see 2 noob armbands, someone is getting out of the car

Maybe we need to look at this simple approach again....

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