Membership Decline?

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:55 pm

found this on the CCWS forum today.

"It's very unlikely that we will ever take our ChumpCar to an SCCA racing event. There are too many ChumpCar races we could got to instead, and SCCA is not likely to be able to change their cost structure enough to offer the same value any time soon, even if they wanted to. We do go to autocrosses with the ChumpCar, and it always attracts attention there, especially when autocrossers find out that CCWS is nearly as accessible as dodging cones, and cheaper per seat minute."

BretLuter · **Posted:** Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:14 pm

steve remchak wrote:

found this on the CCWS forum today.

"It's very unlikely that we will ever take our ChumpCar to an SCCA racing event. There are too many ChumpCar races we could got to instead, and SCCA is not likely to be able to change their cost structure enough to offer the same value any time soon, even if they wanted to. We do go to autocrosses with the ChumpCar, and it always attracts attention there, especially when autocrossers find out that CCWS is nearly as accessible as dodging cones, and cheaper per seat minute."

So Steve, now that you're on the paid staff of ChumpCar, it doesn't have quite the same meaning when someone calls you a Chump. Gotta come up with a alternative semi-insulting nickname..........

:stick:

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:15 pm

steve remchak wrote:

please, please, please Ryan; post the hierarchy of amateur motorsports again. i can't find it. :twisted:

RobLupella · **Posted:** Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:23 pm

It's funny that all the complaints about AX come from people who don't autocross or don't like it or don't feel there is enough seat time (the Quantity vs Quality arguement) or people who are just either stirring the pot or drunk. If you don't see the value in it then go run in circles, drink budweiser and spend a lot of money on an old junker BMW, Honda, or Subaru to chump/lemon around with fine. Other than that it is the same old same old refrain about cost p/mile. Whatever, AX will never win that battle it is different.

I still think the biggest reason for decline is members having other priorities (kids) and the replacement pool getting smaller due to lack of interest in actual cars vs video cars and marketing.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:24 pm

RobLupella wrote:

It's funny that all the complaints about AX come from people who don't autocross or don't like it or don't feel there is enough seat time (the Quantity vs Quality arguement) or people who are just either stirring the pot or drunk. If you don't see the value in it then go run in circles, drink budweiser and spend a lot of money on an old junker BMW, Honda, or Subaru to chump/lemon around with fine. Other than that it is the same old same old refrain about cost p/mile. Whatever, AX will never win that battle it is different.

I still think the biggest reason for decline is members having other priorities (kids) and the replacement pool getting smaller due to lack of interest in actual cars vs video cars and marketing.

hey, hey, hey........... Graham started it.

JohnByers · **Posted:** Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:51 pm

RobLupella wrote:

I still think the biggest reason for decline is members having other priorities (kids) and the replacement pool getting smaller due to lack of interest in actual cars vs video cars and marketing.

I agree its this. Being a HS teacher I can tell you kids don't look at cars the way we did when we first got the taste of freedom. It is easily more of a transportation thing (A to B) than anything else. How do they identify with themselves now? You guessed it, hair, clothing, music etc.

I have kids that are seniors that "could" have cars that still ride the cheese wagon because its "environmentally responsible"

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

Ryan Holton wrote:

steve remchak wrote:

please, please, please Ryan; post the hierarchy of amateur motorsports again. i can't find it. :twisted:

hpde should slot in between autocross and time trials. otherwise i like it

autox isn't my bag but i don't have any ill will towards those who enjoy it, it's a helluva lot better than just talking about it or not participating at all, and a jillion times better than asshats who "street race". but i imagine the #1 reason that w2w folks tend to diss autox is the element of risk (to your car, you wallet, even your life) - as in, there's quite a bit in w2w road racing but very little in autox. when someone from the cone crowd starts bragging about how good they are around w2w guys (or worse, calling them out) it's sort of like boasting to a bunch of vietnam vets about how much ass you kick in modern warfare 3 and why don't they pick up a game controller and receive a beat down?

JasonWatts · **Posted:** Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:02 pm

Jason Tower wrote:

Ryan Holton wrote:

steve remchak wrote:

please, please, please Ryan; post the hierarchy of amateur motorsports again. i can't find it. :twisted:

hpde should slot in between autocross and time trials. otherwise i like it

autox isn't my bag but i don't have any ill will towards those who enjoy it, it's a helluva lot better than just talking about it or not participating at all, and a jillion times better than asshats who "street race". but i imagine the #1 reason that w2w folks tend to diss autox is the element of risk (to your car, you wallet, even your life) - as in, there's quite a bit in w2w road racing but very little in autox. when someone from the cone crowd starts bragging about how good they are around w2w guys (or worse, calling them out) it's sort of like boasting to a bunch of vietnam vets about how much ass you kick in modern warfare 3 and why don't they pick up a game controller and receive a beat down?

edited at request. apparently car's do not crash.

RobLupella · **Posted:** Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:21 pm

steve remchak wrote:

RobLupella wrote:

It's funny that all the complaints about AX come from people who don't autocross or don't like it or don't feel there is enough seat time (the Quantity vs Quality arguement) or people who are just either stirring the pot or drunk. If you don't see the value in it then go run in circles, drink budweiser and spend a lot of money on an old junker BMW, Honda, or Subaru to chump/lemon around with fine. Other than that it is the same old same old refrain about cost p/mile. Whatever, AX will never win that battle it is different.

I still think the biggest reason for decline is members having other priorities (kids) and the replacement pool getting smaller due to lack of interest in actual cars vs video cars and marketing.

hey, hey, hey........... Graham started it.

An adult comment

I'm waiting for: "Did Not"

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:53 pm

you are waiting for me to act like an adult Rob?

how long have you known me?

BTW, I can't get the pyramid link to work

JamesMilko · **Posted:** Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:00 pm

JasonWatts wrote:

Jason Tower wrote:

Ryan Holton wrote:

hpde should slot in between autocross and time trials. otherwise i like it

autox isn't my bag but i don't have any ill will towards those who enjoy it, it's a helluva lot better than just talking about it or not participating at all, and a jillion times better than asshats who "street race". but i imagine the #1 reason that w2w folks tend to diss autox is the element of risk (to your car, you wallet, even your life) - as in, there's quite a bit in w2w road racing but very little in autox. when someone from the cone crowd starts bragging about how good they are around w2w guys (or worse, calling them out) it's sort of like boasting to a bunch of vietnam vets about how much ass you kick in modern warfare 3 and why don't they pick up a game controller and receive a beat down?

edited at request. apparently car's do not crash.

They just run their passengers through bushes.

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:26 pm

This type of comparison is pretty stupid.

Autocrossing is a sport in and of itself. It takes a certain skillset to be good at autocross, and a slightly different skillset to be good at track events. Sure there is a little bit of overlap between the two, but saying one is superior to the other, is just plain ridiculous.

If you don't "get it", or you suck at it, or you just prefer to do something else, then fine, do it. If you have creative feedback, or suggestions to make it better, that's one thing, but don't come in here and piss on someone else's hobby of choice. That's just childish.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:42 pm

Jason Mauldin wrote:

This type of comparison is pretty stupid.

Autocrossing is a sport in and of itself. It takes a certain skillset to be good at autocross, and a slightly different skillset to be good at track events. Sure there is a little bit of overlap between the two, but saying one is superior to the other, is just plain ridiculous.

If you don't "get it", or you suck at it, or you just prefer to do something else, then fine, do it. If you have creative feedback, or suggestions to make it better, that's one thing, but don't come in here and piss on someone else's hobby of choice. That's just childish.

respectfully Jason, the "pissing on" seems to be coming from the AutoX side.

besides, somebody needs to fire up the Newbs. they haven't been here long enough to have participated in this discussion the last time it came up. :roll:

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

Jason Mauldin wrote:

This type of comparison is pretty stupid.

Autocrossing is a sport in and of itself. It takes a certain skillset to be good at autocross, and a slightly different skillset to be good at track events. Sure there is a little bit of overlap between the two, but saying one is superior to the other, is just plain ridiculous.

If you don't "get it", or you suck at it, or you just prefer to do something else, then fine, do it. If you have creative feedback, or suggestions to make it better, that's one thing, but don't come in here and piss on someone else's hobby of choice. That's just childish.

assuming this is directed at me, i wasn't making any attempt to disparage autoxers, nor did i post the triangle graphic claiming that w2w was superior. i just offered a possible explanation on why that graphic exists in the first place, along with an (attempted) humorous analogy because frankly i just love analogies. every culture/subculture has hierarchies, either real or perceived, legitimate or stereotyped, which will always be the subject of jokes. within the w2w realm "real" racers tease lemons/chump wannabees, bmwcca folks look down their collective noses at nasa, euro drivers characterize domestic classes as neanderthals, etc. and each of these snubs exists equally in reverse. in computers we have

and each of those gets broken down. inside the linux camp it's debian vs redhat vs slackware/gentoo. and then the debian crowd breaks down into original vs ubuntu vs mint. and then ubuntu has gnome vs kde vs icewm or whatever. if you can't laugh at yourself, expect others to do it for you

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:53 pm

Jason Tower wrote:

Jason Mauldin wrote:

This type of comparison is pretty stupid.

Autocrossing is a sport in and of itself. It takes a certain skillset to be good at autocross, and a slightly different skillset to be good at track events. Sure there is a little bit of overlap between the two, but saying one is superior to the other, is just plain ridiculous.

If you don't "get it", or you suck at it, or you just prefer to do something else, then fine, do it. If you have creative feedback, or suggestions to make it better, that's one thing, but don't come in here and piss on someone else's hobby of choice. That's just childish.

assuming this is directed at me,

It was not directed at any one in particular.

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