Membership Decline?

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:09 am

Jason Mauldin wrote:

BretLuter wrote:

Hell, I volunteered to be the "Paypal VP" when that discussion came up, I'd be glad to help set something up to help with this.

:thumbsup:

PLEASE DO THIS!

I would've already renewed this year if we had paypal. As it stands now, I still need to send in the check that I keep forgetting to write.

It does seem that we have fought this for too long. It's 2011 and folks like to pay electronically.

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:23 am

BretLuter wrote:

I'm in the same boat here. Not the lifetime thing, but the part about never being able to remember to renew until I get placed on the "you're gonna lose access to the Forum) list.

I believe we probably DO lose people who we could easily retain if we just helped them out a bit. Yeah, it's NOT that hard to remember, but a brief email reminder would likely do wonders to help keep those members we already have.

Hell, I volunteered to be the "Paypal VP" when that discussion came up, I'd be glad to help set something up to help with this.

:thumbsup:

Great idea on the Paypal thing Bret. As a seven year member (unless I missed a year), I'm one of the forgetful ones that has paid the renewal several times after losing access to the forums. It's really easy to forget honesty, especially if you're not one of the folks that goes to the x-mas party and renews there.

It's really two-fold though. That only covers renewals, but new members' interest is always going to be generated by word of mouth, the biz cards, and web presence. Funny story, I was at work yesterday and a pretty red Si sedan pulled up similar to mine and after chatting with them about our products for a half an hour, I mentioned "hey nice car btw, thought about doing any autocross with Tarheel?" Figured it was a longshot but why not? The fellow replied, yeah I'm thinking about going to Sanford in a few weeks. Whoa. :thumbsup:

Naturally, the next thing I said was to come on out and we have instructors that are more than willing to help you out, it's fun!

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:26 am

Dustin Fredrickson wrote:

...I'm sure I would have fallen into this same dilemma had I not HAD to have attended the Xmas party for the last 4 years.

Just a personal pet-peave of mine, but why the X-mas isn't packed every year is beyond me. Before you say people are busy with family and other stuff at that time of the year, why do I hear the same excuse? "I forgot when it was so I have a scheduling conflict." New flash...the party has been the same time every year for at LEAST the last 5 years. It's the 1st Saturday in December and it will be again in 2011.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:07 pm

Vincent Keene wrote:

Just a personal pet-peave of mine, but why the X-mas isn't packed every year is beyond me. Before you say people are busy with family and other stuff at that time of the year, why do I hear the same excuse? "I forgot when it was so I have a scheduling conflict." New flash...the party has been the same time every year for at LEAST the last 5 years. It's the 1st Saturday in December and it will be again in 2011.

And it's a pet peeve of mine that the people who go to the party every year expect the rest of us to also go. Seriously, many of us joined the club to race. We've made friendships here and all that, and I enjoy racing with most of you. But why you just assume I want to go to a Christmas party with you is beyond me. I've got two kids and live just about as far as any TH member could live from the Christmas party location. I already drive all over the state several times that time of year just for Christmas functions I *have* to attend (ie. family). And I plan and attend the gatherings with the people who I really want to attend. I'm sorry you think that should also include *you* Vincent, but it doesn't. Okay, I know that's not exactly what you meant, but it's not that far off, either.

You're just not going to find me at the TH Christmas party any time soon. MAYBE after my kids have left the house and on the off chance it moves within, oh, TWO HOURS DRIVE, from me. But until then? Just isn't happening.

--Donnie

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:13 pm

Dustin Fredrickson wrote:

...enforce kicking people off the forums, and revoking other member benefits for folks not registered by the deadline. Again, I absolutely realize there is significant work involved with this, but I'm pretty sure I recall seeing a number of "regulars" names' on the list of non-renewals and have to wonder if they even realized they weren't paid up. I wonder if having a "membership coordinator" or some like position of responsibility could aid in making this happen.

People may not be aware, but due to my schedule the forum purge didn't happen last year. I think the end result is that it accidentally exposed the fact that if people are not reminded they don't remember to renew. It is a bit of a pain in the neck to go through and manually match up people's forum username to the membership list, then determine who hasn't renewed, then send out emails, etc. But it does work. When the emails go out, people do renew.

(PS: Prepare I am about to start work on the the forum purge for 2011)

Much of my comments here echo a recent discussion in which I also gave some feedback...
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11354&p=112709&#p112709

If you don't care to read that earlier post, IMHO, it boils down to this...

1. Remind people to renew. This should not be a labor intensive effort.
2. Make it easy to renew. I am totally behind the comments above about Paypal or some other method that can be done electronically. Heck, have auto renew option.
3. Actively promote events. Actively participating should progress to club membership.
4. Actively promote the club. The next generation needs to know about what we do and to be be reminded as they have a lot of other stuff competing for their attention.

Richard

Carl Fisher · **Posted:** Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:52 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

Jason Mauldin wrote:

BretLuter wrote:

Hell, I volunteered to be the "Paypal VP" when that discussion came up, I'd be glad to help set something up to help with this.

:thumbsup:

PLEASE DO THIS!

I would've already renewed this year if we had paypal. As it stands now, I still need to send in the check that I keep forgetting to write.

It does seem that we have fought this for too long. It's 2011 and folks like to pay electronically.

If you have a dedicated person to sort through the Paypalled renewals and update the membership lists then you could probably make it work. But despite the fact that it's 2011 and we should all have flying cars by now, our membership list is still on an Excel spreadsheet maintained by Bowie. Even if it was in a real database (and it should be) there are some common scenarios that will have to be dealt with:

A renewal comes in for a family membership who is currently listed with an individual membership. How do we know who else should now be a member?
A renewal comes in for an individual who is currently listed as having a family membership. Are the other family members dropped?
A renewal for someone comes in who isn't listed as a member. Now what? There are many people in this club who go by different names than their "official" ones- is this one of them, or someone else? How do you know?

About every year someone suggests we allow renewal by Paypal. And I think most of those times Emmie or Richard or I comes on here and explains the issues again, and maybe 1 year in 3 someone volunteers to create a member database that does this all for us. Which is great- we would love to have that conversation with someone(s). But then we never hear another word from them. So it sits for another year. Maybe I will get around to doing it myself someday, but history counsels against betting on that.

So if we want to have a "Paypal VP" whose job it is to keep track of this stuff, that's great, that would work. If we have some PHP/MySQL programmers out there who'd like to build a member database (ideally integrating with the forum software) and you will actually do it that would be even better! We would love to hear from you! Send email to webmaster@thscc.com to get the conversation started.

BretLuter · **Posted:** Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:29 pm

Carl Fisher wrote:

If you have a dedicated person to sort through the Paypalled renewals and update the membership lists then you could probably make it work. But despite the fact that it's 2011 and we should all have flying cars by now, our membership list is still on an Excel spreadsheet maintained by Bowie. Even if it was in a real database (and it should be) there are some common scenarios that will have to be dealt with:

A renewal comes in for a family membership who is currently listed with an individual membership. How do we know who else should now be a member?
A renewal comes in for an individual who is currently listed as having a family membership. Are the other family members dropped?
A renewal for someone comes in who isn't listed as a member. Now what? There are many people in this club who go by different names than their "official" ones- is this one of them, or someone else? How do you know?

About every year someone suggests we allow renewal by Paypal. And I think most of those times Emmie or Richard or I comes on here and explains the issues again, and maybe 1 year in 3 someone volunteers to create a member database that does this all for us. Which is great- we would love to have that conversation with someone(s). But then we never hear another word from them. So it sits for another year. Maybe I will get around to doing it myself someday, but history counsels against betting on that.

So if we want to have a "Paypal VP" whose job it is to keep track of this stuff, that's great, that would work. If we have some PHP/MySQL programmers out there who'd like to build a member database (ideally integrating with the forum software) and you will actually do it that would be even better! We would love to hear from you! Send email to webmaster@thscc.com to get the conversation started.

Alright, I guess I stirred the pot, so let me jump into the soup.
:mrgreen:

I am 100% serious about being the go-to guy for Paypal. I can't claim to be a Paypal expert, but I have used it many many times to pay for things, and have BEEN paid via Paypal a bunch as well- so I know how it works.

I agree that some of those scenarios you list could be a problem- but with the membership numbers we have, I can't see it being a HUGE problem even if say 10% of the renewals need clarification (and I would hope that 10% is a high number). Simply send an email to the person who submitted the payment asking for clarification, or just re-stating what you think needs to be done with the membership if it's not 100% clear- and ask them to confirm or correct.

I'd be glad to help with the database, but I am not up on anything regarding programming since my days with COBOL and Fortran. I should be able to pick up on it fairly quickly if someone would be willing to help get me up and running.

I'm not saying I could make all of this happen with what little I know about it at this point, but I'm willing to do whatever needs to be done to get it rolling.

Bret.

RamVennam · **Joined:** Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:31 pm **Posts:** 132

Quote:

So if we want to have a "Paypal VP" whose job it is to keep track of this stuff, that's great, that would work. If we have some PHP/MySQL programmers out there who'd like to build a member database (ideally integrating with the forum software) and you will actually do it that would be even better!

This definitely sounds like something I'd be interested in doing. Let me think about how I would proceed with this - design, the issues Carl mentioned, and how much work would be involved. I think delivering in phases make a lot of sense. Populate a mysql database and tackle new and renewal single memberships first. I'll email webmaster once I come up with something.

I should say that I'm more excited about the programming part, not so much the managing.

Ram Vennam

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:10 pm

Sorry you don't care to socialize with us Donnie.

Actually my post was more geared toward....

Vincent Keene wrote:

...why do I hear the same excuse? "I forgot when it was so I have a scheduling conflict."

...not geared toward...

Donnie Barnes wrote:

I've got two kids and live just about as far as any TH member could live from the Christmas party location.

I get if you live two hours away it isn't practical.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:20 pm

Vincent Keene wrote:

Sorry you don't care to socialize with us Donnie.

Eh, you know that's not *exactly* what I mean, but I chose to expose my feelings about the Christmas party because this isn't the first time I've seen people say "well, get your ass to the Christmas party and you would have known that" or "would have been able to do that" or whatever. It's just not practical for everyone...not even close. Come to think of it, I think I actually have a recurring family Christmas gathering defined exactly the same day as the TH Christmas party anyway. Just because one knows the TH party is the same day every year doesn't mean it can get first priority.

And even so, then there are other reasons why folks just might not want to do it.

And I just looked, hell, I may not have been a member at all last year because I don't see a 2010 membership card and Richard just said there was no purge, which might have been the only way I would have known to renew. But since the lifetime thing existed then and isn't any cheaper now, so as long as I do that I'm still good to go in my own head, anyway.

And really, Vincent, it's nothing personal. I think there's only one TH "member" everyone knows I'd avoid socializing with, and everyone probably knows who that is. :twisted:

--Donnie

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:23 pm

Donnie Barnes wrote:

Vincent Keene wrote:

Sorry you don't care to socialize with us Donnie.

Eh, you know that's not *exactly* what I mean, but I chose to expose my feelings about the Christmas party because this isn't the first time I've seen people say "well, get your ass to the Christmas party and you would have known that" or "would have been able to do that" or whatever. It's just not practical for everyone...not even close. Come to think of it, I think I actually have a recurring family Christmas gathering defined exactly the same day as the TH Christmas party anyway. Just because one knows the TH party is the same day every year doesn't mean it can get first priority.

And even so, then there are other reasons why folks just might not want to do it.

And I just looked, hell, I may not have been a member at all last year because I don't see a 2010 membership card and Richard just said there was no purge, which might have been the only way I would have known to renew. But since the lifetime thing existed then and isn't any cheaper now, so as long as I do that I'm still good to go in my own head, anyway.

And really, Vincent, it's nothing personal. I think there's only one TH "member" everyone knows I'd avoid socializing with, and everyone probably knows who that is. :twisted:

--Donnie

ooh, ooh, ooh, Mr. Kotter, Mr Kotter oooh, i know :lol:

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:35 pm

steve remchak wrote:

ooh, ooh, ooh, Mr. Kotter, Mr Kotter oooh, i know :lol:

You just love that acronym don't you. "IBTL" :twisted:

(I'm so glad you got elected as Drunk Poster)

Carl Fisher · **Posted:** Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:49 pm

RamVennam wrote:

Quote:

So if we want to have a "Paypal VP" whose job it is to keep track of this stuff, that's great, that would work. If we have some PHP/MySQL programmers out there who'd like to build a member database (ideally integrating with the forum software) and you will actually do it that would be even better!

This definitely sounds like something I'd be interested in doing. Let me think about how I would proceed with this - design, the issues Carl mentioned, and how much work would be involved. I think delivering in phases make a lot of sense. Populate a mysql database and tackle new and renewal single memberships first. I'll email webmaster once I come up with something.

Hey Ram,

Why don't you start by contacting webmaster and find out a little more about the issues before you spend time designing a system that doesn't account for something important... we don't bite. (Well, one of us doesn't. :wink:

)

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:08 pm

Carl Fisher wrote:

RamVennam wrote:

Quote:

So if we want to have a "Paypal VP" whose job it is to keep track of this stuff, that's great, that would work. If we have some PHP/MySQL programmers out there who'd like to build a member database (ideally integrating with the forum software) and you will actually do it that would be even better!

This definitely sounds like something I'd be interested in doing. Let me think about how I would proceed with this - design, the issues Carl mentioned, and how much work would be involved. I think delivering in phases make a lot of sense. Populate a mysql database and tackle new and renewal single memberships first. I'll email webmaster once I come up with something.

Hey Ram,

Why don't you start by contacting webmaster and find out a little more about the issues before you spend time designing a system that doesn't account for something important... we don't bite. (Well, one of us doesn't. :wink:

)

As always if this really gets kicked off, let me know. I can help as well.

Richard

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:41 am

Donnie Barnes wrote:

And really, Vincent, it's nothing personal. I think there's only one TH "member" everyone knows I'd avoid socializing with, and everyone probably knows who that is. :twisted:

It sounded like you were adding me to that list. :cry:

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