THSCC Forums

Ok so I'm thinking of getting back into AX. So I was wondering if the officers would consider a couple of options:

1a./
Offer an optional entry where you pay double the fees to not have to work.
Run and leave. Points count in standings. The person registering choose which shift they want to run.

1b./
Offer the option where a person can pay someone elses entry fees or somthing to work their shift.
Allow posting in the AX section or email list that entrants are on.
I know some people do their SOs shift for them. Maybe some people wouldn't mind doing 2 shifts to get out of paying entry fees and such.


2a./
I'd also like to ask about doing split-day event where people can sign up and work/run 1/2 or 3/4 shift.
That way it is only 1/2 day for people who don't want to be there all day.

2b./
Allow people to pay a premium to sign up and work/run specific shifts of their choosing, ie, 1/2 or 3/4.
They still work and run but don't run with their run group.
You assign them to run 1 work 2 or vice-versa to balance out the run/work groups.


Honestly I don't want to work chasing cones. Partly lazy, but mostly the running/bending is a physical issue.
I won't ever be running again so chasing cones isn't very realistic.

I'd also like to be able to only use 1/2 of my day doing AX. Since it really comes down to about 5 minutes of
driving/racing. I'd really like to not use up my whole day.

I'm not trying to be a smarta** or get the AX diehards and officers upset. I'm serious. I'd like to see the club offer some options that clubs elsewhere do. Both of the above ideas are done in other regions. So it has been done before.

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I like the half day thing, but on the worker thing, you do know there are plenty of jobs that don't require running, right? Working gate, timing, tech, starter, etc. TH has always been incredibly accommodating toward those who have reasons why they can't work course.

Now, I'm not saying the club shouldn't consider your other options, but if they choose not to there are still other ways for you to make autocross happen.


--Donnie

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as much as I like those idea's, I dont think they are good idea's in practice. My first thought asto why is if its offered to one, then it needs to be offered to all, and no one wants to work on a 100+degree day, so the majority will try and pay their way out. This will leave very few people to actually work. You cant really tell them "sorry, but you have to run 3x as far during your work because too many people signed up and paid extra to not work.

I would like to believe if you have special circumstances and know about it up front that the officers would be willing to work with you on your half day idea... but the more you have trying to get into the half day, the more likely you are to just end up running a full day anyways.

Again, I really like the idea's, I just dont think th ey would work well in practice. of course, I'm not an office holder, so who cares what I have to say.

We could always limit the number of slots available for these options. Available to all but on a first to sign up basis.

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Colin O'Connell

'94 BMW NASA SPEC 3
'02 F350 tow vehicle (not bad for a tow vehicle)
'97 Miata STO (autoX and sunny day spoils vehicle)
'97 BMW 328i (loaner to the kids when their cars don't work vehicle)
'05 Toyota Highlander

I'd work your shift if you pay my fees!

I think 1b would work so long as there is a system to enforce it. However, it would put pressure on the worker coordinators and where you run and work BOTH of your shifts.

4 heats

You run 2 and work 4.

Person you are subbing for in return for them paying your entrance runs 4 and works 2.

Obviously that situation doesn't work.

And if a lot of people try to participate in this 'program' it would cause a nightmare. And furthermore, if people were able to run out of order to allow this to happen, it might be unfair to said persons competitors in event of inclement weather.

I don't know, seems a simple enough concept, but it gets convoluted quickly.

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I think 1B is an option, but doesn't need to involve anyone outside of the two parties involved. Both Jack and Jill sign up to work. When Jack shows up to work Jill's shift, he just tells the worker coordinator that he's working for Jill. I'm pretty sure the WC doesn't care as long as all the worker stations are covered and the correct number of bodies are working. If Jack decides not to show up to work for Jill, well, Jill is screwed (and not in a good way). But she's responsible for ensuring her worker slot is covered.

I know there are clubs (like the DC SCCA region) that run events where you can run and work in the morning or afternoon and thus just spend a half day there, but I'm not sure the logistics work for our smaller events. Maybe.

That said, are there any clubs that do any variation of the "buy your way out of your work assignment" thing in any formal capacity? Sure, plenty look the other way for having your SO work for you. Heck, I think you can even designate someone to do your work assignment at National events (with approval, but as long as it's a warm body who looks up to the task I don't think they care). But I've never heard of "pay to play without working" in an official capacity. Not saying it isn't out there, but who does it and how do they do it? I'm really just curious.

Seems like I heard the old "PRO" organization didn't require you to work at all, but that was before my time.


--Donnie

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Someone probably makes computer software that can mine the event data for years, trend it, and then do some predictive modeling on the number of entrants required - the people who don't shag cones-the payees, plus the additional $$ earned by people buying out of working

Just to argue this, if you had enough people that it became an issue, then that should be a pretty strong statement that the current format could use some adjusting.

I suspect there would be an equally large number of people that would like to run the first half of the day as there are that would like to run the second half of the day. As well as many people who would stay out there for 12-14hrs if you let them.

It's true that the old format is tried and true, but that doesn't mean there aren't alternatives that could accommodate the idea behind Graham's request.

What about two autocrosses per day?

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In need of car.

Unemployment is high, lets just hire workers.

{cough}anything that unduly burdens the newb worker coordinators will be met with resistance....{cough}

If you don't sign off on the worker sheet, you get zeroed for the event. Doubtful I can handle anything like twenty people cryin and complaining at the end of an event "about person X who was supposed to cover for me" but didn't and now they get no points...

I like the ideas mentioned above, but think there should be detailed conversations with organizations that run it in re: how the workers are coordinated, minimum number of drivers required etc.

+1 on the non-running/bending worker roles. I know we can make accommodations for that and make it work. Also, if you have the walkie at a station, you can tell the novice or guest that they need to shag cones while you call it in and/or flag drivers.

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Steve Carter
1972 Datsun 240Z-- resto pics at http://picasaweb.google.com/srcartermd
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Everyone is a newb at worker coordinator. Once you get suckered....um....persuaded to take the job your next step is to vow you will never do it again. It is like being a parent of a recalcitrant child...er...children.

Having been part of running a LOT of events, I don't like option 2's mostly because all the logistics that go into getting an event running has to happen twice. Registration, tech, etc... This means MORE staff required to handle logistics, and we tend to not have enough workers as it is.

As a dad with a soon-to-be gradeschooling, socker playing, dancing kid, I do like the idea of a half-day event, though. Maybe if ONLY prepaid, preregistered, and annual-teched folks were allowed at the second half of the day, it could work.

Option 1b is easy - just work it out yourself offline before an event. The club needs warm bodies that are qualified to work the course. The club doesn't need to manage it - you just need to trust the person you paid entry for. Then class your car in something that runs the first couple heats. Not the best option if class points are your goal (as you may be switching classes through the year to get your rungroup in the morning), but it could work even if nothing is changed.

I like 1A - but with a twist
1) make it only apply to events where we have enough workers.
2) open up N number of spots (let's say 3) that will have minimal impact to worker assignments
3) club auctions the "no work" slots to highest bidders, starting at some premium over the normal rate (2X?)
Club makes money, a few folks got to get out of working, and worker coordinators can still manage the course.

Of course, I have no say in any such matters

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Dustin Fredrickson
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