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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:10 am 
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Most of the venues we race at are large fields, usually requiring 5 worker stations to cover the course adaquately, with no less than 2 workers at each station. That's 10 people, plus two in the bus for timing and scoring makes 12. Now, we need that for both run groups, that makes 24, and one of the perks of being event chair is that you are not required to work the course, so we arrive at the golden number of 25. My understanding is that this is still not enough entrants for the club to break even on costs, but that is not our main focus, running a safe event is. So 25 is the absolute minumum number of people we need to run an event, and we really need all of them to show up, and hopefully we will also have a few walk ups, the more the merrier.

We cancelled the school in March because of lack of instructors and students signed up. The rallyx the next day ended up getting called later on account of a LOT of rain. The last thing we need to do is tear the mess out of one of our regular venues and end up on bad terms with the land owner. It's not about having to clean your car and deal with mud, it's about having a good long term relationship with the land owners, and respecting that they allow is to use their property with the good faith that we will not tear it up.

There seems to be some confusion over the calling of the July event. I am not sure why, but when Chris posted on the 4th that we were not going forward with the July event due to too few preregistered participants, and to sign up for the next event in August to make sure that event would happen, that message didn't seem to get through. Possibly it is because we did nto get the word to the webmaster to pull the prereg page soon enough, so it looked like it was still on. People were still posting asking for a decision and due to the holiday I did not check the forums for a few days. By then there was a lot of confusion and frustration and when I tried to explain that the event was indeed already cancelled it seems it was taken as a last minute call, when it wazs just a case of ill communication. This was unintentional and unfortunate, and you have my sincere apology for that.

So, we arrive at this week, with 11 days to go until the September event and we have a whopping 13 people prerregistered. This is a holiday weekend, attendance is probably down because a lot of people have family commitments or are travelling. It seems extremely unlikely that we are going to suddenly have 12 more people sign up in the 4 days left until the "deadline" to make the call about the event. Calling the event 4 days early made sense as it would possibly allow people time to change their plans for the holiday, to be with family and friends since the race was not likely to happen at that point.

Why aren't we getting more participants? I'm sure there's a lot of factors that contribute to that, not the least of which is the economy. People don't have the same disposable income to spend on racing. Rallyx is noticably harder on the cars than autox, and more time intensive cleaning the cars afterward. It's easy to see how some people may have reduced the number of events they are ging to or just written off rallyx for this season all together.

What do we need to do? Well, we need to get more people to participate, obviously. We are not as concerned with making money as we are with running a safe event, so we need people who are actually planning to come to preregister. We need to have a positive attitude that while it is frustrating that attendance is down, we are all volunteering our time to make sure that THSCC offers as many events as it can safely provide for it's remaining participants.

ChrisSuich wrote:
Nicely said Ash.
Chris Suich
RallyX VP #2

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:01 pm 
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Thanks Ash, I appreciate the explanation.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:10 am 
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this just sucks that there will be nearly 3 months between events

:(

not sure where I'll be at the time of the next one...

my rallyX days may be limited

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:32 am 
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RayMetts wrote:
my rallyX days may be limited


This is exactly what I'm referring to - the cancellations make me feel the same way. I'm not sure why I feel like that. And I'll probably get over it. But if other people feel like that, then that means cancellations hurt participation, which will lead to continued poor attendance, and maybe more cancellations.

So can't we do *something* in place of cancelled events? I totally understand Ash's explanation of needing 25 people for a race. But could we have a test-n-tune day whenever an event has low participation? You don't need people to staff the course, just the start line and the bus. But then we have the issue of finances, which I think we should discuss in view of a whole RallyX season, like does the whole year of RallyX break even (poor attendance at some, and more folks at others).

Maybe it doesn't matter if some folks drop off, because when the economy picks up, others will show up to take their place. But what if that's not true, and we are losing RallyX regulars, and no one will show up in their place?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:34 am 
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I glad to see some enthusiasm. I hope something constructive comes out of this discussion to help the program. There are 2 RallyX VP positions open every year for election. I encourage all those with ideas and the desire to run this program to run for the position.


-----

I haven't seen a lot of discussion about the fixed costs of $700-$900 per event for the site, insurance, port-a-john and fuel for the bus.

If you have 15 people show for a test-n-tune, we need $50 to $60 from each participant to come play. How many are realistically going to pay that?

If that's the cost model we want to use, then future events will have TBD for registration fees. I just don't see that going over very well.

Another option would be to get a $50 deposit from everyone that preregisters and give a refund at the event that would vary based on the number of drivers. Those whose don't preregister pay $50 flat fee.
Then you have to deal with the low turn out. Based on Ash's previous explanation of needing 25 people to run a safe event, what do you want to do if there is less than 25 workers; what kind of event would you like to hold? What do you do about the points race for the year?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:57 am 
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A lot of times Kevin opens an invitation to come out to his place for lunch and some driving around. Its in no way affiliated with THSCC.

Thats a free way of getting out and doing some practicing and having fun. That way we dont have to come up with $700. But the sad thing is, even at his practice days, people still dont show up.

So I dont know.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:16 am 
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by no means do i mean to detract from the work put forth by the VPs. hopefully no one took any of my comments that way.

what i see as a casual observer is the Subaru guys are all about finding a place to play. the SO4 class has remained at a constant. old guys left, new guys filled the void.

i don't hear anything from the SU2 guys. which if memory serves me was the biggest class at most events. when was the last time a new SU2 beater team made an appearance? IMO, this is where your core support is suffering. and likely this can be contributed to the economy. we need new blood in SU2.

then consider some of the regular participants in SU2 (about 6) are now deeply involved in LeMons prep. once a Beater Ho, always a Beater Ho. :lol:


if the Scoobie guys can attract some new members and the economy picks up to where the rest of us can buy $400 cars to play in the dirt with then the program will be fine.

well that and leaving all those damn cones on the bus. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:50 am 
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ChrisSuich wrote:
I haven't seen a lot of discussion about the fixed costs of $700-$900 per event for the site, insurance, port-a-john and fuel for the bus.


We can save money by not going to the bathroom all day. Whoever shows up in the ugliest car has to pay the gas for the bus.

Quote:
If you have 15 people show for a test-n-tune, we need $50 to $60 from each participant to come play. How many are realistically going to pay that?


I would, but then I'm an idiot.

Quote:
Another option would be to get a $50 deposit from everyone that preregisters and give a refund at the event that would vary based on the number of drivers. Those whose don't preregister pay $50 flat fee.
Then you have to deal with the low turn out. Based on Ash's previous explanation of needing 25 people to run a safe event, what do you want to do if there is less than 25 workers; what kind of event would you like to hold? What do you do about the points race for the year?


Why do we need 2 people at each station? The last Rallycross I was at there were three people on my station, and two of us stood around the entire time. In my experience from autocross one person who knew what they were doing could handle a station easily. If a cone gets knocked you call the car number and run and set the cone back up. Yes, it would mean more running for cones, and we'd have to hold cars at the start until the cones were back, but its better than not racing at all.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:04 am 
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from a safety standpoint it is best to have two people at a station. one is always acting as a spotter for the other. or at least that's how it is intended.

plus there is the Red flag and the fire extinguisher issue as well.


and if you voted the ugliest car to buy the diesel for the bus, Charlie would have to quit rallyX. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:45 am 
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KouroshNeshat wrote:
But the sad thing is, even at his practice days, people still dont show up.

So I dont know.


So, what you're saying is that even when rally crossing is free and there's no minimum number required to hold it you still have a lack of participation?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:14 am 
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Ash Nelson wrote:
KouroshNeshat wrote:
But the sad thing is, even at his practice days, people still dont show up.

So I dont know.


So, what you're saying is that even when rally crossing is free and there's no minimum number required to hold it you still have a lack of participation?


Part of that is lack of info for the event. How many people on this board know whether Kevin has offered for folks to come to his place on Sept 5th?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:18 am 
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I would pay $50-$60 for a test-n-tune event, because with the lower driver turnout, you get so many more runs. How may runs did we get at the test-n-tune in January? 20 runs each? More?

And I keep thinking - do we have to make RallyX break even on each event, or break even for a whole season? We could lose money on one event, but make money on high attendance at another.

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Broken 89 Subaru GL-10 RallyX turbo wagon - need to sell it and all my parts cars


Last edited by RichardNuss on Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:19 am 
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Ash Nelson wrote:
KouroshNeshat wrote:
But the sad thing is, even at his practice days, people still dont show up.

So I dont know.


So, what you're saying is that even when rally crossing is free and there's no minimum number required to hold it you still have a lack of participation?


I went to the last day that Kevin hosted, and he didn't get 30 people, but its impossible to say wether that was because they weren't interested in Ralllycross, or simply didn't want to participate in a non-points social event.

In any event Kevin hasn't offered for this time-- he hasn't returned my emails, so I assume not at this point.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:20 am 
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steve remchak wrote:
from a safety standpoint it is best to have two people at a station. one is always acting as a spotter for the other. or at least that's how it is intended.


Gotcha. Damn safety requirements.

Quote:
and if you voted the ugliest car to buy the diesel for the bus, Charlie would have to quit rallyX.


OK, how about we make it the nicest looking car has to pay? They obviously have the cash :-)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:32 am 
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Michael Czeiszperger wrote:
OK, how about we make it the nicest looking car has to pay? They obviously have the cash :-)


That's a great idea!!! :)

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