New steet tire rule

Carl Fisher · **Posted:** Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:01 am

OK, so I wanted to have a tire rule that was totally clear and objective, that no one could argue about. So what happened? It was totally clear and objective, and everyone argued with me about it. :roll:

So how about a completely murky and subjective rule instead? Of course I'm smart enough to know that y'all will still argue with me about it. :whoknows:

Here's my proposal: That the new "street tire rule" be something like this:

Quote:

For the purposes of this class, a "street tire" is defined as a "summer use" or "all-season" tire from any manufacturer that does not have an knobby or overly aggressive tread pattern, as determined by the Rallycross VP or his designate. Specifically excluded are snow tires, rally tires, mud-terrain or all-terrain tires, and any tire with a knobby tread pattern.

Comments?

AndersGreen · **Posted:** Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:09 am

How do you determine if it's a summer tire? Don't lots of all-season tires say "M+S" on the side? And doesn't that stand for Mud and Snow?

Ohhh, murky murky murky.

Anders

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:21 am

Are my 4 year old Bridgestone RE-71's OK?

After VIR this weekend, they might not have *any* tread.

Scott

Carl Fisher · **Posted:** Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:48 am

Yeah, I think most all-season tires say "M+S" on them. I think it's their way of saying, "Yeah, these things will work in the snow. Sorta."

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

I like the new rule (however I am biased)

To more clearly define the "these are OK" versus "these may not be OK" rule we should keep the 0.22 guideline. It could read something like this:

Legal
"Summer use" or "all-season" tires with tread gaps <= 0.22" gaps.

Probably Legal
Determined by the Rallycross VP or his designate during Tech
"Summer use" or "all-season" tires with tread gaps > 0.22"

Illegal
Snow tires, rally tires, mud-terrain or all-terrain tires, and any tire with a knobby tread pattern.

As we discover illegal tires in the "Probably Legal" category they should be added to the rules.

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

Sounds good to me.

AndersGreen · **Posted:** Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:31 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

As we discover illegal tires in the "Probably Legal" category they should be added to the rules.

The rules that people already don't read?

No one takes rallycross seriously enough to buy tires for it, and the club doesn't take it seriously enough to police the rules. That seems to be the level folks want. So, in the spirit of "I only want to drive in the dirt, not read the Man's 'rules'", I'm proposing this rule:

Quote:

"Please don't show up with rally tires or knobbies, or other agressive tires, or we will only grudgingly let your run."

I just don't think that the seriousness level of the competitors will respond to increased legislation. Two possible (of many) routes are: relax the rules to meet what the people want, or goad the competitors into becoming more interested in winning and learning car control of this nature.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:33 pm

It is always these street tire people that go mucking up good things :lol:

AndersGreen · **Posted:** Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:38 pm

Oooo, here's one I think would really work:

Quote:

Of all cars attending the event, the two with the most agressive tread will be sent home.

People would be bringing extra sets of wheels/tires and down-gripping as they saw their competitors show up with even less grippy tires!

:lol:

Anders

Dustin Fredrickson · **Posted:** Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:18 pm

Quote:

Oooo, here's one I think would really work:

Quote:
Of all cars attending the event, the two with the most agressive tread will be sent home.

People would be bringing extra sets of wheels/tires and down-gripping as they saw their competitors show up with even less grippy tires!

Uh oh, anybody have a set of old Hoosiers?! :lol:

shawnwhipple · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:28 pm **Posts:** 603

I think the original rule worked fine. It's intent is to keep out aggresive, knobby dirt tires and in that function it worked well. I don't think any of the cars at the events had really aggresive tires on. Some cars may have had tires that didn't meet the letter of the law but I think all or most of the cars had tires that met the intent of the law.

I think the new proposed rule basically explains the intent behind the old rule. I think this rule will work well for us as well.

The only thing I would add to the new rule is to keep some measurement in there as a guideline. Something like:

Generally, any tire with a gap between tread blocks of more than 0.22" may be considered aggresive and be disallowed to run.

If you keep that wording in there along with saying the final call is up to the rallycross VP or his designee then I think the rule will work fine.

Anders, as far as, people taking rallycross seriously. I think some patience is in order. Our rallycross program is in the startup phase right now and I'm sure once we establish that the program will be around for awhile people will be more willing to invest in the proper "legal" equipment.

Shawn

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

shawnwhipple wrote:

I think the original rule worked fine. It's intent is to keep out aggresive, knobby dirt tires and in that function it worked well. I don't think any of the cars at the events had really aggresive tires on. Some cars may have had tires that didn't meet the letter of the law but I think all or most of the cars had tires that met the intent of the law.

I think the new proposed rule basically explains the intent behind the old rule. I think this rule will work well for us as well.

The only thing I would add to the new rule is to keep some measurement in there as a guideline. Something like:

Generally, any tire with a gap between tread blocks of more than 0.22" may be considered aggresive and be disallowed to run.

If you keep that wording in there along with saying the final call is up to the rallycross VP or his designee then I think the rule will work fine.

Anders, as far as, people taking rallycross seriously. I think some patience is in order. Our rallycross program is in the startup phase right now and I'm sure once we establish that the program will be around for awhile people will be more willing to invest in the proper "legal" equipment.

Shawn

Shawn you do realize that the Goodyear Infinitreads that came on *your* rallycross car are illegal, don't you?

And I believe the OEM WRX tires are "illegal" too.

Doesn't sound like the original rule is meeting the intent. Sounds like it's broken.

But again I'm biased since I don't want to double my rallycross investment because I have to replace my 0.23" gapped Infinitreads.

AndersGreen · **Posted:** Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:55 pm

shawnwhipple wrote:

Anders, as far as, people taking rallycross seriously. I think some patience is in order.

Shawn, and everyone else: please don't misunderstand me. I am not necessarily looking for a big serious rallycross series. I consider rally my area of focus, and rallycross is very different. I don't have any of my ego tied up in how serious the rallycross event is because they are so dissimiliar. Half of the meager set of skills that I have don't apply to a rallycross course.

I would even consider the attitude-seriousness/rules level of rally to be less than autocross. (I'd base this on two things: thickness of rule book, and occurance of protests.)

So if we go to very informal events, that's fine by me: I'll come out and have fun. If we go to serious events, that's fine too: I'll come out and have fun and probably get beaten, the same way road racers who come autocross do. *grin* All the rallycrosses for me are just practice for something else, and a chance to hang out with folks that enjoy rally-type stuff.

Michael Westerfield · **Posted:** Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:09 pm

Tires Schmires!

I'm talking about weight reduction. I think we should have a rule about running with all body panels intact. Of course I'm not pointing any fingers or anything <cough> pizzabox <cough>.

<- Just sore b/c rental car companies give a funny look not a discount if you ask them to rent a car without trunk lid, hood, etc.....

shawnwhipple · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:28 pm **Posts:** 603

Mike,

I think we are disagreeing over small stuff that probably doesn't matter.

I like the new rule, I think we should use it.

Anders :word:

See you guys in the dirt.

Shawn

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