brake pads

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Tue May 26, 2009 4:00 pm

Where's Dustin? His father in law has Carbotech somethings on his Trans Am. The dust is pretty hard to believe. I fully expect performance pads to dust more than regular pads, but those things are ridiculous.

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Tue May 26, 2009 4:26 pm

Kevin Harvey wrote:

I run various Carbotech compounds on both Cobras.

99 Cobra on track: XP10s front, XP8s back

01 Cobra on street: AX6 front (their autocross compound -- good pad for street use on a performance car)

FWIW/YMMV - my experience with Carbotech race pads has been far less than stellar. I ran a set of XP8's, then a set of XP9's at VIR on my E36 M3, and both compounds had the same problem - inconsistent depositing on the front rotors, which caused some serious brake pulsation and steering wheel shake under braking, not much fun to deal with on track all weekend. I tried resurfacing the rotors, then slowly bringing the pads up to temperature, to no avail. I finally gave up on Carbotech and moved to Hawk (HT-10), and the problem disappeared.

AlexMaier · **Posted:** Tue May 26, 2009 4:45 pm

I got the Ccarbotech AX6s on the S2k and I very much like them for autocross: bite from the firs application on, are easy to modulate, and not too noisy for daily driving.

The dust is quite something though. If I don't rinse the wheels off for a week, they look powder-coated black. If I don't let the dust get wet and then dry, it comes off easy with a brush and mild soap and water. Still I am considering simply painting my street wheels black so I don't have to spend half my life cleaning them.

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Tue May 26, 2009 5:57 pm

Brake pads are sort of like ice cream - everybody has their favorite. My experiences and Keith's experiences are complete opposites.

I never experienced any of the problems with Carbotechs that Keith describes, but I've heard of the issue before. I think Carbotechs are pretty sensitive to being bedded in properly.

As for Hawks, I've just never liked them. Not that I ever had problems with them, I just don't like the way they work. They're way too grabby for me, but I know some people really like that. Those HP Plus' I had on the S2000 were also louder than hell. Dump truck kind of loud. It was embarrassing.

It really is too bad that BHP went under. Their stuff is nearly perfect for me. They've got a lot of friction, but are easy to modulate. They wear like iron. They're reasonably quiet. You don't have to replace your rotors when you put BHPs on - there aren't any material transfer problems. And the dusting, while a little annoying, isn't anywhere near as bad as I've seen out of Carbotechs. The BHP's dust doesn't turn into rust in the first rainstorm, and is pretty easy to clean up.

Kevin Harvey · **Posted:** Tue May 26, 2009 9:28 pm

Karl Shultz wrote:

Brake pads are sort of like ice cream - everybody has their favorite. My experiences and Keith's experiences are complete opposites.

Very good statement, Karl - "everyone has a favorite"

I, too, have had great experiences with Carbotechs. I have been running them for two years with no issues at all at VIR, CMP, Roebling, and Rockingham. XP8s, XP10s, XP12s at the track and the AX6s on the street -- good results with all of them.

Kevin Harvey · **Posted:** Tue May 26, 2009 9:29 pm

BTW, a set of brake ducts not only increases the life and reduces brake fad, but also greatly reduces dust on the wheels.

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Tue May 26, 2009 10:30 pm

Carbotechs were the only pads that would survive on my old Integra GS-R for more than about a day. Very nose heavy, reasonably fast car with small brakes. Hawks did okay, I just didn't like them. I had Carbotechs on every vehicle I owned until Matt and them parted ways, which is when I tried BHPs. I even had Bobcats on my Excursion, and as far as I know, they're still on it (Kevin Butler owns the truck now). And man those things seemed like they would last forever. Unless something has changed since I last owned a set, Bobcats were also very low dusting.

Kevin Butler · **Posted:** Wed May 27, 2009 11:14 am

Karl Shultz wrote:

I even had Bobcats on my Excursion, and as far as I know, they're still on it (Kevin Butler owns the truck now).

Yes they are! I need to check them though. When it's time for new pads that's exactly what will go on it too.

I love Bobcats for Street/AX. I didn't like the BHPs. They overmodulated way too easy (for me).

I never really liked Carbotech product on the track. I've been a Hawk HT-10 user for about 3-4 years know. They are consistent, predictable and wear well. However, the HT-10's are being phased out for the DTC-60 & 70 compounds. I haven't tried them yet, but have heard where some folks aren't satisfied with the performance of the 60's. I have a set of DTC-70s for the Miata to try - if I ever get it back on track.

.

I'm going to try the Performance Friction PFC-01s on the Spec E30. I've heard encouraging things about them (plus I think Keehner gave me a set).

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

I've gotten 2 solid weekends on Hawk DTC70s now. I like them. I'm running DTC70 as a square setup as opposed to DTC70-front/DTC60-rear. Not having any biasing issues at all. The rear is staying stable. As far as braking goes. They held up to 3 days on VIR full with no problems. Never doubted they wouldn't stop me. The modulation is good but not quite as good as Carbotechs. They are a little bit more grabby on initial bite. So you do have to watch out. I noticed it most when LFB in areas where I just needed a light tap on the brakes to set the car or slow it down a bit. The upside is they wear a lot better than Carbotechs and will last me at least 1 or maybe 2 more weekends. Since they wear better they don't taper as quick either. I think Carbotechs are just a bit too soft. I've run Carbotech XP8, XP10, XP12. Only Hawks I ever ran were HP+ on a AX car. I think I'll stick with the DTC70 for a while longer to see how they hold up. I did crack a rotor but it maybe more due to not getting it seasoned enough before the weekend. Jury is still out on that.

As for the dust comments. I always found Carbotech to be dusty but easily washed off. If they get wet then dry it takes more effort to clean the wheels. On the Hawk DTC70. Don't let them get wet then dry. You'll be really sorry if you cared about those wheels...

Graham

steve remchak · **Posted:** Wed May 27, 2009 7:07 pm

Kevin Butler wrote:

Karl Shultz wrote:

I even had Bobcats on my Excursion, and as far as I know, they're still on it (Kevin Butler owns the truck now).

Yes they are! I need to check them though. When it's time for new pads that's exactly what will go on it too.

I love Bobcats for Street/AX. I didn't like the BHPs. They overmodulated way too easy (for me).

I never really liked Carbotech product on the track. I've been a Hawk HT-10 user for about 3-4 years know. They are consistent, predictable and wear well. However, the HT-10's are being phased out for the DTC-60 & 70 compounds. I haven't tried them yet, but have heard where some folks aren't satisfied with the performance of the 60's. I have a set of DTC-70s for the Miata to try - if I ever get it back on track.

.

I'm going to try the Performance Friction PFC-01s on the Spec E30. I've heard encouraging things about them (plus I think Keehner gave me a set).

hey Kevin & Karl, how do those Bobcats work on that truck? i have tried the Hawk HD whatever Fronts for the tow rig and they only lasted 11k miles. and dusted fiercely to boot. i tow heavy on a regular basis.

i heard brake squeal on the way home from VIR the other day so i am guessing i am due for new pads.

Kevin Butler · **Posted:** Wed May 27, 2009 8:07 pm

Steve,

I think Karl said he installed them @ 80k miles. The odometer now says 125k. All that truck sees is heavy towing and they work way better than I would have ever imagined possible for a 7500+ lb truck.

Get 'em.

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Wed May 27, 2009 9:57 pm

What Kevin said. Steve, they freaking rock. When the time comes to replace the pads on my F250, I'm getting them again. Not only that, the dusting is very minimal. It's an excellent compound.

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