Kumho V710

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:03 am

There has been a lot of talk about Formula V last year, and as far as the SCCA is concerned, unless it's in the rules, you can't do it. There has yet to be a protest on it, but I know some people were fairly close to doing a protest on it at one of the Tours. I'm betting that if you shaved a tire and ran Formula V on them brand new, you would end up with a softer top layer of rubber, which will help in how quickly the tire heats up. A lot of people say it won't make a tire softer than new. My question then is why the Formula 1 team use a similar mix on their brand new tires? - AB

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:01 pm

Anyone using Formula V in STS nationally or regionally? Also any idea how popular shaved tires are in STS?

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:25 pm

Formula V on STS tires has been thought about, and I'm sure someone has tried it. As for shaved tires Nationally, most, if not all that are top runners shave their STS tires. They last longer that way and have a much better feel. - AB

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:48 pm

According to the manufacturer Formula Vee is "undetectable". I wonder how one would prove it was used in a National-type protest?

FWIW, we used it for the last event because our tires were DEAD. We weren't trying to improve the tires to be better than they were when new, just better than they were at the time. Two drivers with a total of over 100 runs throughout the year will kill a set of tires. I think it was safe to say they were heat-cycled out. :brow:

Also we were not aware (I know that's not an excuse) that it was illegal to use a traction treatment compound. :oops:

MilesBeam · **Joined:** Fri Aug 15, 2003 1:57 pm **Posts:** 427

If tire modification is the issue with SCCA regarding traction compound, why is shaving or heat cycling legal? The rule book does not specifically allow heat cycling or shaving of tires that I can find.

So Aaron, why does traction compound fall into a different category?

Miles

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Wed Feb 04, 2004 1:39 pm

MilesBeam wrote:

If tire modification is the issue with SCCA regarding traction compound, why is shaving or heat cycling legal? The rule book does not specifically allow heat cycling or shaving of tires that I can find.

So Aaron, why does traction compound fall into a different category?

Miles

Heating cycling is a natural occurance in race tires. I drive the Hoosiers for 30 minutes and put them up for 24-48 hours. The "change" in the compound occurances naturally.

Treating tires with a chemical compound is actually changing the compound artificially. How can you check? That is pretty easy, put a durometer on like tires. I guess in theory, if the stuff works, the chemically treated tire will have a softer rating.

As for shaving, I actually think that is mentioned in the rule book. I just don't think you can take it under 4/32nds. I may be mistaken cause I do not have the book handy.

The only way to find out about the compound is to ask the SCCA and not rely too much on what is said on some lists.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:51 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

As for shaving, I actually think that is mentioned in the rule book. I just don't think you can take it under 4/32nds

So if you've "shaved" them naturally (by driving on them) to less than 4/32nds they would be illegal? So you can't run tires that are too slick?

Man they have a rule for everything!

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:19 pm

Scott and I were talking about this the other day, and within the SCCA rule book, you cannot legally start an event without 2/32" of tread on all four corners. If you have less than that, and someone files a protest prior to the event running, then it should be upheld and the protestee will be disqualified if they cannot get tires on the car to meet the minimum depth prior to their call to the start line. Once the event starts, then the rule doesn't apply. Crazy, huh?

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:27 pm

Geez. So now we need to buy a depth gauge to check Art's tires, and he needs to buy a durometer to check ours. :crazy:

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:46 pm

Vincent Keene wrote:

Geez. So now we need to buy a depth gauge to check Art's tires, and he needs to buy a durometer to check ours. :crazy:

Get the package deal

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:24 pm

Tire Tread Depth: There used to be a min 2/32 rule in Stock. It has been gone for many years. The current rule (safety and Stock) says there must be "non zero" measureable tread depth and no cord. Tire shaving is a common practice. BFG brought support trucks with shaving setups to events many years ago. How would the holographic treads be legal if there was a 2/32 or 4/32 rule in autocrossing?

I don't know about traction compound. Since the tires are controlled in Stock, STS/STX, and SP my guess is that if push came to shove at a major event that using the compound in those classes would make the tires illegal. Never heard of a protest (so far) and the compounds have been around longer than some of you have been alive.

It is assumed legal for race tires since there is no control of the tires/compounds other than the safety rule (cord/tread depth). Race tires have holes to verify tread rubber is still present. When it is gone cord shows and traction goes!

Rule books are available from SCCA.

Phil Wehman · **Posted:** Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:43 pm

Quote:

It is assumed legal for race tires since there is no control of the tires/compounds other than the safety rule (cord/tread depth).

I agree. Prepared and Modified both allow ANY tire that meets the safety rules. I don't see how traction treatment could be considered a rules violation in those classes.

BTW, if anyone has a problem with me using Formula V this season in DM, please speak up now. I intend to treat my tired old Kumhos and try to get a 3rd season out of them.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:17 pm

Three season old Kumhos? Heck, you've lost more traction by "obsolesence" than you could possibly gain by traction compound.

Combine that with aging of the rubber and you might as well have a new set of all seasons

My slicks always feel "slick" after even a few weeks between events. They actually feel "crispy" until after one run to scuff the tire surface again. (Of course, it could actually be rust forming on the driver between events).

By the way, I doubt that anyone would object to using traction compound to try to rejuvenate old tires in any class. IF there is a concern it would be with making new tires stickier than when manufactured.

I suspect that for new slicks and R-tires that any possible traction compound improvement has already been incorporated in the tire at the factory. I've read too many conflicting reports to know what the real answers are and I've never tried the stuff.

Phil Wehman · **Posted:** Thu Feb 05, 2004 8:50 am

Quote:

Three season old Kumhos? Heck, you've lost more traction by "obsolesence" than you could possibly gain by traction compound.

The traction I lose on course is less painful than what I'd lose at home if I dropped another $450 on new rubber right now. So, the $36 for tire treatment doesn't seem like such a bad compromise! Know what I mean? :wink:

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Thu Feb 05, 2004 9:44 am

Looks like Dick is right:

3.3.3.D covers this. However, all of the tires out there (Hoosier and V710 have a couple of grooves that are at least 2/32nds.

Scott

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