Mazda3 drivers at Laurinburg...

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

KendtEklund wrote:

Slightly more serious question - I fold my seat down to carry my AX wheels+stuff and have forgotten my rear headrests before. Does STS require that I run with them?

Only if someone notices and cares.

A reminder for those of you who are publicly discussing "is this legal" -- it is up to the class competitors to determine the legality of a car. First you read the rulebook, then make your decisions. If you go online and ask "is this legal" you're drawing attention to yourself and opening the door for someone to care.

Rules enforcement can be done by peer pressure (preferred) or formal protest prior to trophies (not preferred). When something is protested, the officers will decide if the protest should be upheld.

So your competitors might be looking a little more closely for your rear headrests now. I would if I were in your class. The first time you "forgot" them, no big deal, but now that it's up as a topic, if I were an officer, I'd probably uphold the protest.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

protest!

My experience in our class has been that nobody is too strict about things. If you do something illegal and your actually gaining a performance advantage from it, then I might care, but headrests/sunvisors I certainly don't care about. . .

While we're on the topic though, at the Triad event I was at in April, there was a guy in a bmw 318 that had a rear cage that was running STS, this is illegal no?

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:43 am

On the other hand, if the owners manual stipulates the removal of the head rests for folding the seat down it might be 100% legal for the class (as the removal is an intended configuration for the car).

The rules are so much fun.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

BriceJohnson wrote:

While we're on the topic though, at the Triad event I was at in April, there was a guy in a bmw 318 that had a rear cage that was running STS, this is illegal no?

Legal.

3.3.2 Roll Bars
Roll bars or roll cages are strongly recommended in all cars. A roll
bar meeting the requirements of Appendix C, or a roll cage meeting
the requirements of Section 9.4 of the General Competition Rules
(GCR), is required in all A, B, C, and F Modified vehicles, and all
open cars in Prepared Category and in D Modified and E Modified.
The intent of this requirement is that all open cars using racing slicks
must at a minimum have roll bars which meet Appendix C, regardless
of Regional variations in category definitions and/or preparation
allowances. For open cars in the Stock, Street Prepared, Street
Touring, and Street Modified categories, the roll bar or roll cage
height may be reduced from Appendix C or GCR Section 9.4 requirements
to the highest possible height which fits within an installed
factory specified hardtop or convertible top.

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:19 am

KendtEklund wrote:

Todd Breakey wrote:

What, you're not going to punch them in the crotch?? :twisted:

I would!

Hell Kendt, do what I did in my Miata, remove them all together!! Not STS legal but it saves maybe a half pound and adds 15 wheel hp!!!! :lol:

15?!! Stripped interior FTW!

Slightly more serious question - I fold my seat down to carry my AX wheels+stuff and have forgotten my rear headrests before. Does STS require that I run with them?

Technically yes, but again this is THSCC and I don't think anyone would even notice. You could always do what the T2 Caddy drivers did and zip tie them sonewhere else in the car (they couldn't see out the back window with them in place).

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

jimpastorius wrote:

Oh, we have not had a good rules debate in a loooong time :lol:

Rules are pretty st00pid. We ought to be like Triad and class Z3s in STS and slammed Hondas with the decal of the spring manufacturer affixed to the car in HS.

George Bright · **Posted:** Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:20 pm

Todd Breakey wrote:

You could always do what the T2 Caddy drivers did and zip tie them sonewhere else in the car (they couldn't see out the back window with them in place).

There is one over riding rule that would meke the zip tie illegal.

13.1 "If a modification is not specifically authorized in this or previous sections of these Rules it is not allowed."

So if it is not stated in whatever class rules you are under back to stock then removing the head rests and reattaching them somewhere else would probably be found illegal in a protest.

That is unless it is part of a proceedure in the owner's manual or service manual from the manufacturer.

Now that should be as clear as mud.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

George Bright wrote:

Todd Breakey wrote:

You could always do what the T2 Caddy drivers did and zip tie them sonewhere else in the car (they couldn't see out the back window with them in place).

There is one over riding rule that would meke the zip tie illegal.

13.1 "If a modification is not specifically authorized in this or previous sections of these Rules it is not allowed."

So if it is not stated in whatever class rules you are under back to stock then removing the head rests and reattaching them somewhere else would probably be found illegal in a protest.

That is unless it is part of a proceedure in the owner's manual or service manual from the manufacturer.

Now that should be as clear as mud.

Don't forget that officers have a lot of power in determining if a protest is upheld. Locally, again if I were an officer, I'd allow something like the headrests since it's a safety issue, and they weren't trying for a weight advantage. I'm sure that's true of the actual cars in SCCA T2 also ... textbook illegal doesn't mean a protest will be upheld.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:38 pm

Will the rules Nazi's put their SCCA rulebooks down.

Crotch punches for someone who protests a headrest or sunvisor.

KendtEklund · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:29 pm **Posts:** 1204

Ryan Holton wrote:

Will the rules Nazi's put their SCCA rulebooks down.

Crotch punches for someone who protests a headrest or sunvisor.

Hell - I'll leave 'em off just to see that :twisted:

That is if someone wants to protest a last-place finish - Ziex FTL!

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:08 pm

Don't forget that event chairs get to protest all protests to forthwith allow only that rule that is allowed when the event chair says so.

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:02 am

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:46 am

Does anyone even know what the actual THSCC protest procedure is? I wouldn't know *how* to protest someone. And we probably shouldn't post it here.

--Donnie

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Protestor: Hey Ryan, Mr. X is cheating because of A, B, C.

Ryan: Why are you asking me instead of an autocross VP. Hell with it, I'll take a look at it.

*time passes*

Ryan: Awww, it's not that bad.

:wink:

Ash Nelson · **Posted:** Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:21 am

I hope no one protests that I removed my cigarette lighter :lol:

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