Thoughts on FWD alignment specs?

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Wes Eargle wrote:

Thing is that the car has zero toe in the front. Unless it's getting some kind of dynamic toe under braking, I don't understand it. It's not rubbing on anything. Unless something is wonky due to the lowering of the car.

Bring the car over and we'll put her on the lift and take a look. I'm with Karl and others, that can't be from camber.

What does Mark Cooper say? He sees enough cars with busted suspensions, I'd be surprised if he can't make a guess.

Michael Westerfield · **Posted:** Wed May 30, 2007 8:28 am

I've got about 1.5 deg of camber all the way around on the prelude, and I DD that. I also disagree that is camber wear. Got to be something else.

My tires wear pretty evenly as long as the alignment holds, and the toe stays near zero.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

MikeWhitney wrote:

Wes Eargle wrote:

Thing is that the car has zero toe in the front. Unless it's getting some kind of dynamic toe under braking, I don't understand it. It's not rubbing on anything. Unless something is wonky due to the lowering of the car.

Bring the car over and we'll put her on the lift and take a look. I'm with Karl and others, that can't be from camber.

What does Mark Cooper say? He sees enough cars with busted suspensions, I'd be surprised if he can't make a guess.

He thought that everything looked fine. Nothing is broken, new lower control arms and engine mounts (and engine) were put in 10K ago.

David Spratte · **Posted:** Wed May 30, 2007 1:44 pm

Aaron Buckley wrote:

Kevin Allen wrote:

Spratte - and I'm thinking he's going to win it again this year.

I still have a shot. Spratte might be in trouble.

- AB

Please, you're behind me now after three whole events!

I'm doing better this year thanks to my alignment!

Edit: Actually, my alignment is currently a bit less than optimal right now. When I pulled the DAs off the car I set the rear toe to zero since VIR-N was coming up. I didn't want it too twitchy at speed since it was
A. My first HPDE in years and first in that car.
B. My second HPDE ever.

Yes, I fell into the trap of thinking an understeering pig is easy to deal with "at speed."

Spinning at Sanford was so much fun, I think I'm going to soften the fronts a bit to get it looser.

David Spratte · **Posted:** Wed May 30, 2007 1:51 pm

JamesFeinberg wrote:

Speaking of the rightful owner, Spratte is going down!

Actually, I'll probably miss at least 3 Tarheel events this year so probably not but a boy can dream, can't he? :roll:

Jim

Bring it! Really, it's been a blast running in X this year. Who thought PAX could be so much fun?

Back on topic:

Wes: Yo' chit be hoopty man. Something's up. I ran 1.5° to 2° of camber in the Miata and never had an issue. I know next to nothing about the Contour, but I still can't imagine that there's anything in there that should cause that kind of wear with that much camber by design.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Miata -- double A-arm
Contour -- Mac Strut and gangsta h00ptielicious

ChuckNelson · **Posted:** Wed May 30, 2007 10:23 pm

That wear is amazing. My 850 wore in a similar fashion when the lower control arm bushings were shot. There was no play in the suspension and the static setup looked fine, but it wore the heck out of the inside edge of the tire. I only found it when I took the arm off after making a lucky guess at the problem.

I could see the arm rotating and creating extreme toe while braking.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Wes Eargle wrote:

He thought that everything looked fine. Nothing is broken, new lower control arms and engine mounts (and engine) were put in 10K ago.

Same wear on both sides?

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

MikeWhitney wrote:

Wes Eargle wrote:

He thought that everything looked fine. Nothing is broken, new lower control arms and engine mounts (and engine) were put in 10K ago.

Same wear on both sides?

Yes.

Jeb Brookshire · **Posted:** Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:21 pm

I wanted to post an update. Mark suggests zero toe F/R and -2 deg camber front and -3 deg camber in the rear. The rear is no problem, for the front the max I can get at this point is -1. There are no camber plates for the Mazda3 yet. He said I could ream the holes out to make them more oval-shaped and get the extra degree that way. It make sense, but at the same time I am worried that things may start to move. Have any of you guys done this or have any thoughts?

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:24 pm

Jeb Brookshire wrote:

I wanted to post an update. Mark suggests zero toe F/R and -2 deg camber front and -3 deg camber in the rear. The rear is no problem, for the front the max I can get at this point is -1. There are no camber plates for the Mazda3 yet. He said I could ream the holes out to make them more oval-shaped and get the extra degree that way. It make sense, but at the same time I am worried that things may start to move. Have any of you guys done this or have any thoughts?

Which holes is he talking about reaming out? The shocks I had on my STi had elongated holes for the top bolt that mounted to the hub. They were built that way. Do you not want to try camber bolts? Also, I don't think I would use that much rear camber unless he has set some one elses mazdaaa 3 up with that and they liked it.

Jeb Brookshire · **Posted:** Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:40 pm

MarcusMcRae wrote:

Jeb Brookshire wrote:

I wanted to post an update. Mark suggests zero toe F/R and -2 deg camber front and -3 deg camber in the rear. The rear is no problem, for the front the max I can get at this point is -1. There are no camber plates for the Mazda3 yet. He said I could ream the holes out to make them more oval-shaped and get the extra degree that way. It make sense, but at the same time I am worried that things may start to move. Have any of you guys done this or have any thoughts?

Which holes is he talking about reaming out? The shocks I had on my STi had elongated holes for the top bolt that mounted to the hub. They were built that way. Do you not want to try camber bolts? Also, I don't think I would use that much rear camber unless he has set some one elses mazdaaa 3 up with that and they liked it.

My shocks are held to the tower by three bolts. I would ream out those holes. Mark made the camber recomendation as a way to help the car not be so tail happy with the bigger rear bar that is on there.

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:49 pm

Jeb Brookshire wrote:

I wanted to post an update. Mark suggests zero toe F/R and -2 deg camber front and -3 deg camber in the rear. The rear is no problem, for the front the max I can get at this point is -1. There are no camber plates for the Mazda3 yet. He said I could ream the holes out to make them more oval-shaped and get the extra degree that way. It make sense, but at the same time I am worried that things may start to move. Have any of you guys done this or have any thoughts?

My camber plates are slotted for caster adjustment. They moved once with the supplied bolts. I replaced them with stronger bolts, torqued them tighter and haven't had them move again.

If you have a FWD car that is "overly eager to rotate", and you don't have an aggressive spring rate, I'd look for something that might be binding in the rear suspension.

KendtEklund · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:29 pm **Posts:** 1204

Jeb Brookshire wrote:

I wanted to post an update. Mark suggests zero toe F/R and -2 deg camber front and -3 deg camber in the rear. The rear is no problem, for the front the max I can get at this point is -1. There are no camber plates for the Mazda3 yet. He said I could ream the holes out to make them more oval-shaped and get the extra degree that way. It make sense, but at the same time I am worried that things may start to move. Have any of you guys done this or have any thoughts?

Am I reading this catalog right? Looks like K-Mac makes camber/caster plate kits for up to the 07 Mazda 3.
http://www.k-mac.com.au/Kmac_catalog.pdf

Having to restrain myself to just get Azenis first, then plates later (unless I'll kill the outside of my front tires too soon w/o plates).

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Jeb Brookshire wrote:

My shocks are held to the tower by three bolts. I would ream out those holes. Mark made the camber recomendation as a way to help the car not be so tail happy with the bigger rear bar that is on there.

Check your class rules VERY CAREFULLY for legality of this modification.

I'd recommend camber plates if they are available for your car.

PS - Learn to drive a tail-happy FWD car. You'll be a better and faster driver for it. "Oversteer" IS subjective. A wildly oversteering monster to one driver may be a pushing pig to another.

Ask Jim Feinberg to take a fun run in your car. He'd give you the scoop.

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Thoughts on FWD alignment specs?

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