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I just swapped the 'kooks for Azenis as the play/school/wet autocross tires.

I don't hate the 'kook as much as Aaron does, but the Azenis they are, without question, the better tire.

They take a set almost immediately. Give you great feedback both through the wheel and only talk to you when they have something important to say.

I think the rap they get on being a bad wet tire comes from people driving them through standing water on the wear bars. No tire is going to like that.

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Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

so you didn't find wet traction in big NC thunderstorms to be a problem with the Falkens?

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2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

Because they suck.

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Silver Honda
Green Ford
Blue/White Suzuki
Red Triumph
Grey BMW

"Never let life be shaped by fear of its end"

No, you're a towel!

I thought they were worse than the 215 in the rain.

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Silver Honda
Green Ford
Blue/White Suzuki
Red Triumph
Grey BMW

"Never let life be shaped by fear of its end"

No, you're a towel!

never ran the 215, so that doesn't give me much reference. I guess I'm trying to compare them to a "normal" street tire, such as my BFG's. . . with a tread pattern that at least LOOKS like its designed to disipate water

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2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

I haven't hit rain with the 615s yet.

I did have the 215s on the Miata and daily drove on them and never felt threatened by weather. Okay. I take that back. They suck on hardpacked snow and ice.

Of course, I tend to slow down when encountering standing water.

YMMV.

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Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

hmm, another interesting thing to throw in the mix, according to Falken's website, the 215/45 RT615 is 23.1 lbs, and the 225/45 is 25.3! Can that be right? If thats the case, that kinda makes me wanna go with 215's, as I'll get shorter gearing and 2 less lbs of tire weight, I don't need the extra 270 lbs of load capacity on my 2800 lb compact do I?

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2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

Falkens have always been heavy. That's why I think my car responded the best to MX's that were quite a bit lighter ~ 3-4# per tire - AB

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

My 2 cents on the Azenis and wet weather. Other than about three months of the year (winter) in which I use a set a cheap all weather tires on the stock steel wheels I have run three different Falken tires all the time over the past three years. Those would be the Azenis 215, Azenis 615 and the FK 451. All started life as full tread and was driven until they were at or past the wear bars.

I had no problem with any of them in the wet when they have tread. If fact, other than in standing water, they are great in the rain. The FK 451 was better in standing water, but I would have no reservations on the 215 or 615 in wet weather as long as you realize that as they approach the wear bars they start to have not much in the way of any tread left. When at or past the wear bar, they can be scary in heavy rain. As David says, many tires will have that problem.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

I always thought the 215's were spooky in a heavy rain. The actual wet traction is *great* but they hydroplane way too easy for my tastes. Once they were worn halfway down, they were downright dangerous at highway speeds. Once they hit the wear bars, I couldn't drive more than 50mph on the interstate in anything more than a moderate rain! With the amount of toe out I run in the front, I literally couldn't tell the difference between tramlining and hydroplaning even in a light drizzle. Not exactly confidence inspiring!

The 615's seem to be much better in that regard so far. The grip level seems to be about the same but, at least at half-tread, they evacuate water tons better than the 215's. I haven't hit the wear bars on the 615's yet but so far I haven't felt the impending doom I felt driving with the 215's in the rain.

I think you shouldn't have any problems getting 15k miles out of a set of 615's. My current set is going on 12k miles and they are just now hitting half-tread with 100+ runs on them. Heck, I've got an old set of 215's that have ~300 runs on them with at least 20k miles and they are just now on the wear bars. Honestly, I don't see how people manage to kill these things on the street in less than 10k miles.

I know the CRX is light and probably not as hard on tires as most cars but I also have a set of 615's on my Volvo wagon. And that thing ain't exactly light! The set on the Volvo is approaching 10k miles and I can't even see the wear yet. Then again, I'm not exactly blasting around corners in that car.

Jim

If it's a true street tire you want, you only have one set of wheels, and you need good autox performance, the Avon Tech M500 summer tire is what you need. I used those in size 225/45/17 on the STi for about 10k miles, did some autox and track and was very happy with dry/wet/dirt/gravel/whatever grip level, no noise, good treadwear (10k miles on MY STi is a LOT of miles), no really bad wear patterns (they did wear quicker in the middle due to all the tire spin they were subjected to), very stiff sidewalls, and I didn't feel like they'd be a good excuse for slowness for someone who isn't going for a national championship.

I'm sure people are going to say, "Oh, but those aren't the fastest STS tire on the market" and other blahblahblah stuff, but let's keep it real, please.

Oh, and they were good enough to beat Whitney's M3 which was on 245 width Kumho MXes at the autox I chaired at Sanford last Fall.

right, I realize they are heavy due to such stiff sidewalls, and I'm at peace with that (as much of the stiffness is responsible for their excellent performance in transitions). You guys have pretty much convinced me of going with the Falkens. I'm just trying to determine which is better, having ~2% shorter gearing and 2 lbs less tire weight or 10 mm extra tread width.

The 225's are listed on Falken's website as "reinforced", while the 215's are not. They both are W rated tires, its just the load rating on the 225 is significantly higher, is this reinforcement worth the extra weight (I could care less about load rating, just about steering response)? 2 lbs of tire weight is pretty significant for my setup, my total wheel tire package will either be 38.4 lbs or 40.6 lbs, so thats about a 5% difference.

And Kevin, I realize I'm not getting a true "street tire", but the more I think about it, the more I'm willing to put up with these small compromises for a higher level of overall grip.

Plus, Jeb is on the hankooks, so I've gotta gain some competitive edge on him

Thanks to all for your good suggestions/discussion, you guys have been really helpful

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2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

Hey we can turn this into a tire thread Wow, give up every day comfort and safety for 4 minutes of AX a month. It probably takes you longer to get out of the neighborhood every morning

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

well, if I were looking for a true street tire, I'd probably just get another set of my BFG's, they have been one of the best street tires I've ever had. I just want to try something a little grippier to see what its like. Maybe I'll regret it in a couple months, who knows. . .

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2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

I think considering that Aaron has spent so much time testing different STS tire that I would trust his opinion on this, but I will say that in 2005 I wanted the 615 in 16" but it wasn't out early in the season when I bought my tires. So I used the FK 451 and was VERY happy with them. In 2006, the 16" 615 was finally available. The diameter was smaller (and I appreciated and noticed the gearing change), but the 16" tire was narrower than the 451 I had used the year before.

I had a hard time deciding what to do but went with the 615. I wasn't totally thrilled with the 615 as the car actually didn't feel like it had the grip level as the well worn (not full tread) 451 that I had used the year before. So if I was to do it all over again, I probably would have preferred to have had the wider tire, but that is a gut feeling. I have no emperical data to back this up. Of course I really wanted the smaller diameter and just as wide as the 451.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.