Anybody wanna help me pick my next tires?

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

So I keep going back and forth on what I want for my next set of tires. I've got two dilemas that I'm trying to solve, choosing what size as well as what particular tire. I'm running a 17x7 wheel. I'm trying to choose between a 215/45 and a 225/45 in either a Falken Azenis, Hankook Z212, or Khumo MX. I run 215/45 (BFG G-force sport) now and enjoy the excellent steering response and the slightly shorter gearing (but want a grippier, softer rubber), and wonder how much extra contact patch I'll actually get cramming a 225 on a 7" wheel, but then again, I don't know a whole lot about this.

I know conventional THSCC wisdom is to choose the Falkens. However, keep in mind that this will be a true street tire for me (I only have one set of wheels now). A couple things that concern me about the Falkens are its rain traction and treadwear (particularly considering the Falkens START with 1/16" less tread than the other two), this is why I'm considering the other two options. I don't care about road noise or ride quality, just about wet performance, dry performance, steering response, and treadwear.

Any of you out there that have run the Falkens AND one of these other tires have some comparisons (or considering this debate has probably been done before, can you point me to those debates on other forums)?

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:40 am

Pick up the latest issue of GRM. They have an article on the top street tires. If you join NASA, you get the magazine. It is a whole lot better than the drivel the SCCA puts out :-)

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

just signed up for a free trial issue, hopefully thats the one I get. Looks like a good magazine, I'll probably end up getting a subscription. I was getting tired of reading Car and Driver (you wanna talk about DRIVEL!)

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:55 am

BriceJohnson wrote:

So I keep going back and forth on what I want for my next set of tires. I've got two dilemas that I'm trying to solve, choosing what size as well as what particular tire. I'm running a 17x7 wheel. I'm trying to choose between a 215/45 and a 225/45 in either a Falken Azenis, Hankook Z212, or Khumo MX. I run 215/45 (BFG G-force sport) now and enjoy the excellent steering response and the slightly shorter gearing (but want a grippier, softer rubber), and wonder how much extra contact patch I'll actually get cramming a 225 on a 7" wheel, but then again, I don't know a whole lot about this.

I know conventional THSCC wisdom is to choose the Falkens. However, keep in mind that this will be a true street tire for me (I only have one set of wheels now). A couple things that concern me about the Falkens are its rain traction and treadwear (particularly considering the Falkens START with 1/16" less tread than the other two), this is why I'm considering the other two options. I don't care about road noise or ride quality, just about wet performance, dry performance, steering response, and treadwear.

Any of you out there that have run the Falkens AND one of these other tires have some comparisons (or considering this debate has probably been done before, can you point me to those debates on other forums)?

The Z212 and the MX will like to be shaved to go fast... not a good combo for street driving. The Azenis can be run full tread and will be plenty fast that way. With my Celica in ST form, the tires that worked the best (fastest to slowest): Kumho MX shaved to 2/32" -> Falken Azenis 215 shaved to 2/32" -> FK451 shaved to 3/32"->Azenis 615 full tread -> Azenis 215 full tread ->Kumho MX full tread -> Kook Z212 shaved 3/32"... Yes, I tried a ton of tires on the Celica

I have the BFG G-Force Sports on all of my cars and can say that they are a damn good tire. Excellent wet and dry conditions, but not nearly the grip of an Azenis.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:59 am

BriceJohnson wrote:

and wonder how much extra contact patch I'll actually get cramming a 225 on a 7" wheel, but then again, I don't know a whole lot about this.

The 225 is the optimal width for a 17x7 wheel. I actually run 235s on my 17x7s now and they work awesome.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

Thanks for the info Aaron. I'm not going to be shaving these unfortunately, since I'm trying to get 15k or so miles out of them if possible (perhaps thats a bit optimistic, although I've gotten about 20k out of my BFG's even using them for autocross duty).

It sounds from your post though that Khumo MX>Hankook Z212, is that a fair assessment?

I know they are hardly a credible source when it comes to motorsports, but the MX finished last in an 11 tire test in Car and Driver (225/45-17 size on a BMW 3 series) in which the Hankook finished 5th (and posted the 3rd fastest dry autocross time). Argh, so confused. . .

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:37 am

BriceJohnson wrote:

Thanks for the info Aaron. I'm not going to be shaving these unfortunately, since I'm trying to get 15k or so miles out of them if possible (perhaps thats a bit optimistic, although I've gotten about 20k out of my BFG's even using them for autocross duty).

It sounds from your post though that Khumo MX>Hankook Z212, is that a fair assessment?

I know they are hardly a credible source when it comes to motorsports, but the MX finished last in an 11 tire test in Car and Driver (225/45-17 size on a BMW 3 series) in which the Hankook finished 5th (and posted the 3rd fastest dry autocross time). Argh, so confused. . .

The problem with tire tests is that there are too many variable. Ambient temp, air pressure, car setup, driver tendencies, etc.. To me, I think you can get 15k out of a set of Azenis 615. The MX full and Kook full tread will not a be a lot of fun. - AB

TomFreeman · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:40 am

Brice,

If you look at the C/D test again, you'll see they factor in a lot of comfort/harshness type measrements that you might be willing to put up with in the name of better dry performance.

Also, it's fairly unlikely you'll get the current issue of GRM for your first through the NASA deal. I'd buy it from Borders/B&N.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

they'll be more fun than full tread BFG's were though right? I mean, remember, I'm just a casual autocrosser, I run maybe 1 event a month, and decent rain performance is still important to me, thats my main concern with the Falkens

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:43 am

You could also try the Bridgestone RE-01R. It is $144 in that size. I know Chris Landi and Phil Fausz have them and like them a lot.

The kooks definitely suck. The 615's did not like my M3.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:46 am

BriceJohnson wrote:

they'll be more fun than full tread BFG's though right? I mean, remember, I'm just a casual autocrosser, I run maybe 1 event a month, and decent rain performance is still important to me, thats my main concern with the Falkens

I would think so, but the MX is not very good in cool rain conditions. The MX likes to be hot. That was the beauty of the tire for me, for I never needed to cool them down between runs.

I honestly thought the Hankook was overall just garbage, and I really liked their race compound stuff. It squealed like crazy, providing too much audible feedback, and the grip was fine in transition, but in steady state couldn't hold a candle to the Azenis or MX (shaved).

Everyone said the RT215 Azenis sucked in heavy puddling rain. I loved it in the rain, especially when it was puddling. The RT615 was supposed to be even better in the rain, but I gave up on STS before ever doing some wet conditions testing on the 615. - AB

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

TomFreeman wrote:

Brice,

If you look at the C/D test again, you'll see they factor in a lot of comfort/harshness type measrements that you might be willing to put up with in the name of better dry performance.

Also, it's fairly unlikely you'll get the current issue of GRM for your first through the NASA deal. I'd buy it from Borders/B&N.

right, but dry autocross, the Hankook still won over the Khumo.

And I didn't sign up for the NASA deal just yet, just a free trial issue of GRM.

I think the conclusion I'm starting to come to is that I can't go too wrong with any of these choices, and that I'm kinda splitting hairs, is this a fair statement? You have all convinced me at least that 225 is the way to go, so that helps a bunch.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:47 am

MarcusMcRae wrote:

The 615's did not like my M3.

I think a lot of that has to do with the weight of your car. The heavier the car, the more you need the Advans

- AB

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:49 am

BriceJohnson wrote:

I think the conclusion I'm starting to come to is that I can't go too wrong with any of these choices, and that I'm kinda splitting hairs, is this a fair statement? You have all convinced me at least that 225 is the way to go, so that helps a bunch.

Yes and no. I would take the BFG G-Sports over the Kooks. I would take the MX over the Kooks. I would take the Azenis 615 over all of them, even for a daily driver. - AB

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:57 am

Here's a very relevant data point.. At the 2006 Solo2 Nationals, in STS, of 45 drivers, 2 ran Hankooks, finishing in 23rd and 39th.

In STS2, in 23 cars, no one ran Hankooks.

Nationals Results

Hankook pays contingency money, yet no one is driving them? I wonder why?

36/45 in STS were on Falkens and 21/23 in STS2 were on Falkens. These guys are the best of the best in the country and have done their own testing... - AB

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