Cryo Treatment Tech

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:11 am

Vincent Keene wrote:

Update on the Ferodo 2500s. I ran them at:

VIR-F - THSCC (street tires)
VIR-F - NASA SE (street tires)
VIR-N THSCC (race tires)

You got 3.5 events out of them, drove on the street and you are complaining about $135. That is about $40 per event and they worked pretty well for you. I would be pretty happy putting aside $40 an event for brake pads :-)

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:23 am

jimpastorius wrote:

Vincent Keene wrote:

Update on the Ferodo 2500s. I ran them at:

VIR-F - THSCC (street tires)
VIR-F - NASA SE (street tires)
VIR-N THSCC (race tires)

You got 3.5 events out of them, drove on the street and you are complaining about $135. That is about $40 per event and they worked pretty well for you. I would be pretty happy putting aside $40 an event for brake pads :-)

I guess that's one way to look at it. In your case you are stopping more weight from a higher speed. I would expect mine to last longer than yours. BTW, how long do yours last?

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:37 am

I only get 2-3 solid events out of mine. I have a whole slew of front pads with just enough material to tease me with. I ran 2 VIR-Full on the set on the car right now. I am hoping they get me through CMP next weekend. I do have a new set on the shelf though.

I will be bringing the new set and a spare set of rotors to CMP in May.

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Aaron Buckley wrote:

If you're running Corvette brakes, I would be out on the T1 forums and see what they run. - AB

The T1 guys are all over the board on which pads. You'll get a heavily loaded opinion based on which vendor sponsors their pads or gives them breaks on them. So far I've figured out that all their choices are good. Just depends on what you are willing to pay. They are using the top shelf and most aggressive pads from each vendor. I've been through this with these guys since I happen to drive a similar car ;-)

Guys like Aguilante at Phoenix and Heinrecy like Hawk DTC-70 / DTC-60 combo.

Guys like Chris Ingle like Carbotech XP12 / XP10 combo.

Some of the other guys like PFC-01.

Those guys are all in deals with the vendors.

PFC-01 are the most expensive. Then the Hawks. Carbotech is still the least expensive. This is for a C5 (T1 or otherwise).

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Vincent - After 3.5 weekends with the DS2500 how are your rotors?
You started this thread with the issue of not wanting to burn up $300/pair of rotors so quick. So you burnt up a $150 set of pads. I don't see that as a big deal. Your rotor cost is the bigger concern. If you go back to more aggressive pads like the Carbotech XPs, Hawk HT or DT, etc they might last longer. But you'll be cracking rotors again more often.

Maybe try the Carbotech AX6 (Panther replacement). Same price as the DS2500. See how long they last and whether they fade. Or Hawk Blue/Black. Another option. Go hang out on CF in the C4 parts section. By used pads.

I tend to agree with Jim. If I get 4 events out of a set of pads I'm pretty happy. Same with my rotors. The XP8s and XP10s last about the same.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:03 am

Graham Jagger wrote:

Vincent - After 3.5 weekends with the DS2500 how are your rotors?
You started this thread with the issue of not wanting to burn up $300/pair of rotors so quick. So you burnt up a $150 set of pads. I don't see that as a big deal. Your rotor cost is the bigger concern. If you go back to more aggressive pads like the Carbotech XPs, Hawk HT or DT, etc they might last longer. But you'll be cracking rotors again more often.

It's hard to say since I started the Ferodo pads on cracked (heat checks) rotors. The RF cracked at VIR-N and I swapped it out. I swapped the LF out this week because it's about to crack.

Graham Jagger wrote:

Maybe try the Carbotech AX6 (Panther replacement). Same price as the DS2500. See how long they last and whether they fade. Or Hawk Blue/Black. Another option. Go hang out on CF in the C4 parts section. By used pads.

My thought is to try the Hawk HP Plus street combo pad next at VIR-S, unless someone can talk me out of it. I put on my old PFC-Z pads this week to get me by...they suck. They have NO initial bite...even on the street.

Graham Jagger wrote:

I tend to agree with Jim. If I get 4 events out of a set of pads I'm pretty happy. Same with my rotors. The XP8s and XP10s last about the same.

If I can get 3-4 events without the pads killing the rotors I'll guess I'll live with that.

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Vincent Keene wrote:

My thought is to try the Hawk HP Plus street combo pad next at VIR-S, unless someone can talk me out of it. I put on my old PFC-Z pads this week to get me by...they suck. They have NO initial bite...even on the street.

We talked about this before. I have the same opinion on the PFC-Z. You couldn't give me those things. The HP+ has excellent initial bite. Maybe they'll last a full session without fading since your brakes are oversized and you have ducting. Don't forget what I said about the dust. It is really corrosive and sticks to paint like glue. Just wash your wheels more often. If they start squeaking on the street, run them hard for a few stops and they should quiet down.

Vincent Keene wrote:

If I can get 3-4 events without the pads killing the rotors I'll guess I'll live with that.

With the HP+ I don't see why you can't get at least 4 events out of the rotors. The pad may not last 4 events though. Watch the pad taper. If you see any move the complete set left to right making sure the outboard pad becomes the inboard pad on the other side. You'll get maybe 1 more event out of them. I'm tapering pads more than I care for.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:09 am

Graham Jagger wrote:

With the HP+ I don't see why you can't get at least 4 events out of the rotors. The pad may not last 4 events though. Watch the pad taper. If you see any move the complete set left to right making sure the outboard pad becomes the inboard pad on the other side. You'll get maybe 1 more event out of them. I'm tapering pads more than I care for.

I did notice pad taper (more inboard pad wear vs. outer) when I removed the DS-2500s. That's the first time I had seen that. The XP-8s seemed to wear pretty even in that respect. What causes the pads to wear differently? The inner pad gets cooled less maybe?

So now the decision. Do I get another set of the Ferodo DS-2500s or try a set of the Hawk HP Plus'?

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Vincent Keene wrote:

I did notice pad taper (more inboard pad wear vs. outer) when I removed the DS-2500s. That's the first time I had seen that. The XP-8s seemed to wear pretty even in that respect. What causes the pads to wear differently? The inner pad gets cooled less maybe?

So now the decision. Do I get another set of the Ferodo DS-2500s or try a set of the Hawk HP Plus'?

The C4 calipers are not that much different than the C5 calipers so I expect you to see this. The more aggressive the pads and your driving the more it will happen.

The calipers are aluminum and so are the pistons. Front calipers are 2 piston. Both are on the inside and are the same size. So you get leading edge taper on one side and trailing edge taper on the other. The caliper twists and flexes some. Also over time the caliper will anneal (sp?), ie, it will spread, since it's aluminum. I've been told my stock calipers are good for 2 seasons if I do a lot of events. It depends on how aggressive you are, your pads, the type of courses you run, and how much ducting. So YMMV.

Once you start seeing a lot of taper replace the calipers. They are cheaper than burning up brake pads every weekend because of taper. So for now swap your pads like I noted. That will even out the taper. After a weekend I can see and feel the taper. So I'll probably move them side to side at the end of each track day. Not that time consuming or a big deal.

If they are tapering badly you'll feel the brake pedal getting deeper (long pedal as they call it). Almost feels like you cooked your brake fluid, but bleeding the fluid won't do anything.

You can get used C4 calipers cheap on CF. Or get a hold of Gene Culley at http://www.gmpartshouse.com/ . He's a good guy and can beat the dealers and GM Parts Direct all day long.

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