THSCC Forums

lets see. it allll started about a year ago. my gf's Accord was really weak to start for a few days and finally wouldnt start at all. i jumped it and it started right up. got a new battery and it was as good as new.

then about a month ago she said the car sometimes wouldnt start so hot and it would pretty infrequently need a couple tries. it was so infrequent though it was almost a nonissue.. a quirk i guess.

then last week she had some starting trouble but finally got it going. that night while driving all her dash warning lights and door open indicator lights went off. and there was a loud whine under the hood at idle.

popped the hood, the whine was coming from the alternator. checked the running voltage, 11.5V! put in new alternator, problem solved. no weird lights. proper 14ish volts running, no more whine.

but! since then (a week) she said the car is still starting badly. most often it cranks hard, but just doesnt catch. she waits some time (once up to 3 hours) and it would crank up like a champ. a few times she said the starter sounded weak and was cranking slowly.

what the heck? it has a pretty new battery and a brand new alternator. could running the car w/ a bad alternator hurt the battery sicne it was being fully charged? any other ideas? i've heard the main relay is an issue w/ the car so i plan to check it soon.

so i guess next i'll take it to autozone and confirm the battery is ok. but the fact that most often it cranks hard, but never catches makes me think maybe its some intermittent electrical (relay?) problem instead of the battery..

the fact that its capable of firing up and running strong rules out spark plugs and fuel delivery doesnt it? maybe the distributer?.. hrm

any ideas?

I'd check the main relay. If it is being sketchy I believe the fuel pump won't start when she tries to crank the car. I have heard this is a pretty common problem with hondas/acuras. A friend of mine has this exact issue with his integra.

Late 80s and early 90s honda's are notorius for this, although I hadn't heard anything about the newer ones.


Does it happen mostly when warm outside... that is the first clue. If so leaving the windows down or the door open will temporarily help this problem.

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2001 Honda S2000 - SOLD
2012 Boss 302
2003 BMW 330i

Re the relay failure - on my old 90 Civic, the relay board solder joints had cracks in them which made for intermittent contact. I pulled the relay apart and reflowed all the joints. Worked like a charm and it was free. If you determine it's the relay you might want to try it first to save some $$$.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

I too had a friend with a 90s Honda who had hot starting issues, and it was neither the alternator nor battery. Can't remember the exact issue, but those discussed in this thread sound familiar. It was no gas for some reason, can't remember if vapor lock/fuel pump/relay.

Anders

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Lina Racing: As Seen On Radio

Did the same on my 91 CRX, with same good results.

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Dustin Fredrickson
-- I'm a nobody --

well.. unfortunately she said the starting issues dont correlate to temperature.. she said its not started jsut as often on a cold morning than in a hot afternoon. ill check it out anyway though

It would seem that there was an ignition recall on those years of accord. Although the symtoms aren't quite the same it may still be worth looking into.

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=274013

you might want to check out the recalls and TSBs here

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2001 Honda S2000 - SOLD
2012 Boss 302
2003 BMW 330i

good call. doh, i forgot to mention that shes had the ignition recall done on her car. and the EGR stuff.

well, since i last posted its been fine so we thought it magically fixed itself. yess.

HOW FOOOOOOOOLISH OF US...

yesterday she drove it all day, fine as normal. then she said she stopped to check her mail and had to turn the car off. when she started it back up about 1min later it turned over in sloowww motion she said. wouldnt start. tried again. same thing. then finally it started quick enough to start and she got across the complex and parked. i came over about 30min later and i started it up 3 times in a row perfectly. as powerful as ever.

it can't be the battery if its capable of starting strongly right? could a starter give intermittent trouble?

its seams to me if it was the main relay itd be more of an intermittent all or nothing type deal. a relay can't just be half closed and cause the starter to start in slow motion id think.

hrm any more ideas?

Sounds like a frustrating problem. If it were me, I'd be going over every single power connection under the hood looking for corrosion, loose contacts, etc. Disconnect, clean, and lube everything. Spend some time getting your hands dirty to see if you can spot anything amiss. Don't forget to re-do ALL of the ground cables, and the connectors at the alternator.

With third-hand diagnosis (from a non-car enthusiast) discussed on the internet of an intermittent problem that is not repeatable, this one is going to be hard to diagnose conclusively. It sounds like there have been 3 disctinct problems, each of which needs to be analyzed a different way...

_________________
Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

yeh youre right. ill go over all the connections and grounds next.

what i'm really after is more info/experiences w/ main relay trouble. i'm finding a lot on older Hondas but not much on her generation at all.

The relay causes a cranks fine-or-no crank situation. Did for me at least. Sounds you've got some flaky voltage control, or a big short, or something. I can't imaging how a failing relay could cause low voltage at the starter... That's a relay and a solenoid away from the key, and those are both "binary" power devices.

Actually assuming the battery is FINE and fully charged, the only things that I can think of that would cause slow cranking are (1) extremely high resistance in one of the + wires or connectors from the battery to the + terminal on the starter, (2) the ground strap(s) from the motor/trans to the body, (3) the ground strap from the body to the battery, or (4) a partial internal short in the solenoid or the starter itself (IMO very very unliekly)

That's it. I can't think of any other problem which would cause slow starting with a fully charged battery. And I should mention that IF the battery is fully charged AND the car is cranking slowly, you have a pretty big fire hazard on your hands. In my opinion.

_________________
Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

I don't think the main relay is a problem either. The relay simply causes no fuel to be delivered... so no slow cranking. Just full speed cranking with or without fuel.

_________________
2001 Honda S2000 - SOLD
2012 Boss 302
2003 BMW 330i

Dan asked

Not necessarily true. Batteries often get intermittent shorts prior to fully giving up. If this is the case, the car could start strongly 3 times in a row and then fail to start or crank very slowly the next time. Best check for this is to test the battery while it's on a vibration source or shaker of some type.