Help - Crankshaft Problem

Lee Williams · **Joined:** Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:22 pm **Posts:** 75

It seems that 'somebody' didn't tighten the crankshaft pulley bolt well enough after changing the timing belt :oops:

. Well, the bolt came loose, the pulley came off the crankshaft and the splines that were on both the pulley and the crankshaft are no longer there. I still have the little metal key and the slots on the pulley and crankshaft that the key fits into are still intact. I thought about putting the pulley back on the shaft with the key in place, add some locktite and tighten the bolt down good, but it just didn't seem like this would work. I thought about replacing the crankshaft but think I would need to totally disassemble the motor. I've thought about selling the car or parting it out. Many thoughts, no action yet. What might be the best way to go? It is a 1993 Integra (yes, my beloved Integra) with 250+K on the odometer, new tires, new water pump, and basically in good condition except for the crankshaft. Thanks in advance for your input and advice.

Lee Williams
1993 Acura Integra (formerly GS 37)
1991 Toyota MR2

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

If the Woodruff key and crank nose are still good, invest in a junkyard crankshaft pulley and a new bolt and a new Woodruff key. You might want to retap the threads on the crankshaft. This time, use thread sealer. Worse comes to worse, you spent $20 trying to diagnose the problem.

Is the crankshaft bolt torque to yield in this application?

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:53 pm

If the engine is original, with 250K I would just suggest getting another one if you want to keep the car. You can try and fix this problem, but the rest of the motor is probably pretty beat at this point that once you get the crank out, you would be putting back a lot of marginal parts or spending money on new ones. If the crank hub is splined and the splines are gone, it will require machining to fix AFAIK. There might be an aftermarket repair kit, like a redi-sleeve, but I doubt it for a splined application.

I have heard that some people swap different motors in Hondas than they originally came with. That might be an unsubstantiated rumor, so who knows.

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:13 pm

Why would there be splines and a woodruf key? I know my old Toyota just uses the key, no splines at all. Are you sure it was splined?

The toyota does use a splined gear *inboard* of the pulley to drive the oil pump, any chance the acura is the same way and you are thinking of that?

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:19 pm

scottjohnson wrote:

Why would there be splines and a woodruf key? I know my old Toyota just uses the key, no splines at all. Are you sure it was splined?

The toyota does use a splined gear *inboard* of the pulley to drive the oil pump, any chance the acura is the same way and you are thinking of that?

1993 Integra has a B-series, right?

Here is a B-series crank

I don't see a splined crank snout.

Stephen Westerfield · **Posted:** Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:23 pm

Rich Anderson wrote:

scottjohnson wrote:

Why would there be splines and a woodruf key? I know my old Toyota just uses the key, no splines at all. Are you sure it was splined?

The toyota does use a splined gear *inboard* of the pulley to drive the oil pump, any chance the acura is the same way and you are thinking of that?

1993 Integra has a B-series, right?

Here is a B-series crank

I don't see a splined crank snout.

Yep, B18a.

George Bright · **Posted:** Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:05 pm

Bob Kendrick has put several Honda motors back together that have had your problem. He has done the red locktite trick on them. He usually has put a new pulley and key in them. It has worked on these motors. But they were grocery getters. At 250k I would take this route and decide if you want to put another motor in it later of get rid of the car before this one is worn out.

Lee Williams · **Joined:** Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:22 pm **Posts:** 75

Rich Anderson wrote:

scottjohnson wrote:

Why would there be splines and a woodruf key? I know my old Toyota just uses the key, no splines at all. Are you sure it was splined?

The toyota does use a splined gear *inboard* of the pulley to drive the oil pump, any chance the acura is the same way and you are thinking of that?

1993 Integra has a B-series, right?

Here is a B-series crank

I don't see a splined crank snout.

I googled and couldn't find a picture anywhere near that good. The reason that I thought that there were splines is because the inside of the pullley has ridges that look like the remains of splines. And then I was thinking there were splines from when I disassembled/assembled it. But, I'll admit, I have a really bad memory and the picture shows no splines. I'll try putting it back together as it is assuming the pulley fits on there pretty snugly. Maybe at worst, all I'll need is a new pulley.

Thanks to you all for the expert advice and input!

Lee

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:28 pm

Lee,

I found a photo of what looks to be a JDM Type R Crank Pulley on this page...

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/yhst-140838 ... rcrpu.html

I see the splines you talk about. Does your pulley look like that? I recently did the timing belt on my D16Y7 and I can't remember if mine had splines + woodruff key or just the woodruff key.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:58 pm

Lee,

I did some more searching via Google images and as best as I can tell, all of the cranks I have seen don't have splines. I have seen some that look to have oil stains from where those spline like things on the crank pulley touch the crank.

If you slide the pulley onto the crank, how tight is it? Does it have any play? If not, it might be OK. I have heard of people having that bolt come out after a timing belt job and not doing damage. That it just drops off and the engine stops. I guess the real potential for damage is on the top end (valve and piston interference issues)?? Timing belt look OK as well?

If you feel that the pulley slides on the crank Ok, is tight, and the woodruff key looks OK, I would put it all together, but this time use loctite in addition to torqueing it down to spec.

Good luck.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:53 pm

Slap it back together, you dont have a problem at all. No splines just the groove for the woodruff key.

250k is just getting good right Steven?

George Bright · **Posted:** Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:24 pm

I spoke with Bob tonight and he very strongly recomends a junkyard or new pulley. And use lots of red loctite to keep things from wiggling. If you use the old chewed up crank it will probably come apart and it will need a crank next time.

Lee Williams · **Joined:** Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:22 pm **Posts:** 75

I found an old crankshaft pulley and it has splines. Not pointy splines, more like ribs. So, I wasn't hallucinating about splines...... not entirely anyway (thanks for the photo Richard). I put it on the shaft and it seems to fit pretty snug. Tomorrow, I will get some loctite (red?) and put it all together and torque it down.......

I have another question..... the proper torque is 180 N-m, about 1600 in-lbs. My torque wrench doesn't go up that far. If I set it at 800 in-lbs and double the length of the handle with a pipe, will that work?

Thanks again for all your help and expertise,

Lee

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:21 am

Lee Williams wrote:

I found an old crankshaft pulley and it has splines. Not pointy splines, more like ribs. So, I wasn't hallucinating about splines...... not entirely anyway (thanks for the photo Richard). I put it on the shaft and it seems to fit pretty snug. Tomorrow, I will get some loctite (red?) and put it all together and torque it down.......

I have another question..... the proper torque is 180 N-m, about 1600 in-lbs. My torque wrench doesn't go up that far. If I set it at 800 in-lbs and double the length of the handle with a pipe, will that work?

Thanks again for all your help and expertise,

Lee

Don't use that method to torque it as you will really not be using the wrench correctly. Here is what I did....

I figured out about how much weight I put if on hands and knees by putting hands on scale. Whatever that was, I used that to calculate how far out on my breaker bar I should push down. Trick is to replicate that position and to make sure that when you torque it, that you dont try to sneak up on the final setting. Don't pull, stop, pull, stop, pull, etc. Ideally you want it to rotate cleanly and then just stop once at the final torque. which for me had me horizontal as is on all fours and the breaker bar horizontal as well. Weighing 260+ lbs makes it easy to do this as well as I don't have to manage a longer bar. I hope that makes sense. This is a bit of backyard engineering, but I think if done correctly can work. Oh, and use loctite.

If anyone else had better ideas, or thinks I am full of crap, post quickly before Lee uses my method. :lol:

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:26 am

Two other things...

Because you have to torque this via front wheel well and this probably requires 1-2 long extensions for your socket, if you don't build a level pivot point near the head of your torque wrench, that could cause bad torque values.

Your quotes torque value is only 130 ftlbs. Just goto sears and buy a beam wrench that is cheap.

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