Slicks vs. DOT Race

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:23 pm

All this talk of tires has got me wondering if anyone here has some experience with real race tires on track. Looking at the current Hoosier offering because it is the most complete, how long would a set of R55 slicks last versus a same size R3S05?

For example:
http://frisbyracetire.com/Hoosierslicks.htm
The 43375 has a section width of 9.4" and costs $185
by way of comparison
http://frisbyracetire.com/HoosierDOT.htm
The 46510 has a section width of 9.6" and costs $188

So, on the surface, it would seem the two are very similar. The question is, are they really? Comments on wear, stick, feel and anything else appreciated.

Chuck Frank · **Posted:** Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:29 pm

Dick Rasmussen has a lot of experience with running slicks, Patrice may have also.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:51 pm

Rich and Chuck,

My track experience with slicks is slightly better than none and that was with the formula car.

The best source of info on slicks for track use would be an actual track oriented race tire distributor (i.e. probably not even Hoosier Tom).

That said, for slicks to work they REALLY need a suspension setup that is optimized for them I believe. I've seen road tests maybe ten years ago where "street" based cars were faster on DOT R tires than on slicks simply because the suspension couldn't be adjusted to what slicks need.

You also need to be very sure that the tire is designed to work with the weight of your car. Remember slicks are designed for RACE cars and most race cars are very light compared to similar size Showroom Stock and Improved Touring cars.

Also be sure to check the rim width specs. Bias ply race tires are designed for specific rim sizes and are less tolerant (I think) to variations than radials may be. Many are cantilever (narrow rim, wide tire) but again the car weight will be a big issue.

RACE tires have very thin tread ply areas . . . i.e. they puncture easily compared to a DOT radial.

What might work well is a spec series race slick from one of the higher classes (such as Daytona Prototype) but think about the wheel sizes they run. You might also consider a spec series radial if they are designed for longer life on "street based cars". Again, though, check to see what the rules allow in regard to weight reduction compared to stock. The tires will be designed accordingly.

How is that for more questions than answers? :roll:

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:56 pm

In response to MY book above:

For racing, to my knowledge, no one runs DOT tires when slicks are allowed.

Slicks (with the softest compound which will work for the car, track, race length, etc.) are REALLY great in regard to grip, etc.

If you wonder about autocrossing with slicks the biggest issue with Tarheel sites will be getting the gravel off them between runs if the compound is soft enough to get sticky.

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:58 pm

Thanks for the input Dick. Some good points for me to investigate. Clearly I need to find out what the weight and suspension on an E-Production car is as that is what the aforementioned Hoosiers are indicated as being provided for. Thankfully the car I am considering using these on is run in EP.

Patrice Bousquet · **Posted:** Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:29 am

Last year I bought a set of racing slick for autocross exactly the size that you are talking about 43375 in the R45 compound.
The first event they where awesome. After that they seem to go downhill. They are very sensitive to tire pressure. Took me some time to figure it out. On the Porsche 15psi fr and 18-19 psi rear seem to be the best. Last Sunday they where awful they seem they never get clean up
of the rock sticking to them. The car had no grip, I'm sure a simple set of Azenis will have been way better. They also like very little camber, so the alignment is important. As of for wear they are not too bad the front still have plenty left, the rear some. I was thinking to try them at VIR north in April, they might work better on track that are more cleaner than what Laurinburg can be. I will have to have them swap on the rim front to rear ( I'm using different size rim front rear), but I found out a small nail in one of the rear one last night when removing the rock on them. For sure when I pull it off, air started to come off. I'm bringing them and a another set of wheel today to Hubcap Heaven. I just ordered a set of Kumho V710 for that second set of wheel. I will see what Mark say about the slick that have the nail in if it can be fix. If not they will be sitting in the back of Mark place. So for the type of autocross site that we have, almost all of them have a lot of grit I'm not sure they are the best type of tire to have. Looking at M. Whitney tire last Sunday with almost no rock sticking to them I think the V710 will do a better job. We will see.

Patrice

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:12 am

Thanks for the info Patrice. I would be interested to hear your thoughts if you get to run them at VIR North. I guess I am thinking that the cost is the same, if the wear rate is about equal and the stick is greater, why not give it a shot? It is not like I really know what I am doing with any tire, so starting from scratch in terms of tuning isn't a big deal to me.

Patrice Bousquet · **Posted:** Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:07 pm

Ok, I'm back from Mark, it's like I was thinking he cannot reliably fix it. It's just at edge almost in the sidewall. So they are going to dumpster.
I will probably ended up having a set of Toyo RA1 or Kumho ECSTA V700 install on these wheel for street driving and wet track. I already have a set of Toyo RA1 on a 3rd set of wheel that I was using for street and wet track. Last fall I had to used them at Rockingham so I will continue to used them on track now before they get old and dry.
The reason I try the slick was the same one that you are thinking about now. Price relative to the Hoosier DOT is the same ( not in regard of the V710 ). Wear is basically the same, that I can attest now, and grip, well I think that one really depend of the type of site.

Patrice

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:19 pm

Are you sending all the tires to dumpster or just the one? If you have the others, let me know please. I was thinking about going to an SCCA race and seeing if I could scavenge some E Prod take offs.

Patrice Bousquet · **Posted:** Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:17 pm

Check with Mark at Hubcap Heaven 319-3484 if you pay for the removing of the tires on the rim they are all yours.

Patrice

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:15 pm

Patrice Bousquet wrote:

Check with Mark at Hubcap Heaven 319-3484 if you pay for the removing of the tires on the rim they are all yours.

Patrice

Patrice, does Mark know you want to get rid of these tires? I was about to call and figured that being some random guy who wants someone else's tires might not convince him!

Patrice Bousquet · **Posted:** Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:36 pm

Just talk with Mark, told him you're interested to take the racing slick.
It will be $20 for removing them from the wheel. Told him that you might call him.

Patrice

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:38 pm

Patrice Bousquet wrote:

Just talk with Mark, told him you're interested to take the racing slick.
It will be $20 for removing them from the wheel. Told him that you might call him.

Patrice

Great. Thanks.

Ron Spencer · **Posted:** Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:30 pm

Not mentioned but what about tire temperatures? I thought slicks REALLY needed to get warm/ hot before they would work well. Certainly depends on compound I'm sure.

But I imagine nothing beats having the full 6, 7, 8 or however many inches of footprint solid rubber! Gotta help a bunch for grip! Unfortunately whenever my DOT tires get down to that they've been heat cycled so many times glass has more grip!

Ron

THSCC Forums

Slicks vs. DOT Race

Who is online