FWD Hubs (wheel bearings)

Chris Schimmel · **Joined:** Fri Oct 10, 2003 9:34 am **Posts:** 50

Vincent,
Don't call me with your hub problems. I've never had any!! (Knocking on wood). But Mark Vitacco has had enough bearing problems for the both of us. Early VW's use a smaller hub bearing than the later A2. Increasing the loading with camber plates and Hoosier's kills early hub bearing and the only solution is to update to the later A2 hub and bearing and drive shaft.
Can you have a larger bearing machined into your present hub? The guys at Dixie bearing are pretty good to work with ,if there aren't a lot of people at the counter.They can tell you what bearings are available in a larger size . Talk withyour machine shop guy first on how much can be machined. I know a couple of VW guys also pull off the dust caps on the sealed bearing and use a top grade wheel bearing grease and relube the bearing before installation. I'd definitely try that.
I know Mark tried machining a gease fitting or something on his hub a...the result wasn't very good.
Have you tried a whole new hub assembly? After so many replacements,I'd agree that the the hub hole is probably a little wobbled out.
Good luck ...keep us posted.
Chris

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:39 pm

Chris Schimmel wrote:

Can you have a larger bearing machined into your present hub?

I have no idea. That's why I want to find someone to hand the whole hub assembly over to and say "hey, make this better".

Chris Schimmel wrote:

Have you tried a whole new hub assembly?

Everyone I've replaced is a whole new hub assembly. They are sealed units with bearings, races, and studs. No serviceable parts...supposedly.

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:54 pm

Call Todd at TCE and ask him what he knows. I think that SHOs had this problem and there became a way to carefully pull one of the seals in order to fill it with a superior quality grease. Since he did lots of SHO brakes, he will know.

Plus, every conversation with him is informative and even if he doesn't know, he might know someone who does.

Kevin Hoff · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:46 pm

Vincent Keene wrote:

Chris Schimmel wrote:

Have you tried a whole new hub assembly?

Everyone I've replaced is a whole new hub assembly. They are sealed units with bearings, races, and studs. No serviceable parts...supposedly.

I think what Chris is talking about is the upright -- the thing the bearing/hub presses into. I know that on Subarus they can get seriously out of round from the stresses of cornering and pounding over things (in rally). Once the upright is out of round bearings don't last at all.

Oh another thing is that on VW's I had much better bearing life by doubling (!) the stock torque figure for the hub nut.

--Kevin H.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:55 pm

Kevin Hoff wrote:

I think what Chris is talking about is the upright -- the thing the bearing/hub presses into.

My bearings/hub is a sealed unit that bolts onto the steering knuckle that is attached to the strut. There is nothing "pressed" in on these newer style hub assemblies. It looks like this:

Kevin Hoff wrote:

Oh another thing is that on VW's I had much better bearing life by doubling (!) the stock torque figure for the hub nut.

On mine that would mean the torque would need to be 370 ft-lbs! :shock:

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:25 pm

Vincent,

How "flat" is the surface the hub seats against? Any chance the hub can "rock" at all which could allow wear on the hub surface which in turn would reduce the torque on the stub axle which would then have the effect of loosening the nut?

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:56 pm

DickRasmussen wrote:

How "flat" is the surface the hub seats against? Any chance the hub can "rock" at all which could allow wear on the hub surface which in turn would reduce the torque on the stub axle which would then have the effect of loosening the nut?

It's about as flat as you can get with a cast part like the knuckle I guess. The three bolts that hold it on do a good job and have never loosened on me...especially since I used Loc-tite just to be safe!

Unlike you guys, I don't *think* the axle nut is loosening, but I could be wrong I guess. In that case would adding a jamb nut do the trick? I have plenty of the threaded portion of the axle left over if that would work.

George Bright · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:57 pm

Vincent,
Have you ever retorqued the axle nut after assembly and some run in time? It might be possible that the nut is backing off and dropping the preload on the bearings. If it is a self locking nut I would recomend replacing the nut after one or two uses.

Just a thought.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:04 pm

George Bright wrote:

Have you ever retorqued the axle nut after assembly and some run in time? It might be possible that the nut is backing off and dropping the preload on the bearings. If it is a self locking nut I would recomend replacing the nut after one or two uses.

I've tried that too! Nothing seems to help their longevity. Oh, and each new hub assembly comes with a new locking nut so I've never re-used one of those.

Kevin Hoff · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:57 pm

Vincent Keene wrote:

Kevin Hoff wrote:

Oh another thing is that on VW's I had much better bearing life by doubling (!) the stock torque figure for the hub nut.

On mine that would mean the torque would need to be 370 ft-lbs! :shock:

Yep, that was the range I was running... (I just stood on an extension on a breaker bar. Back then I weighed about 160 and stood a touch over two feet out from the hub. :lol:

)

Your pic helps a lot. Thanks.

--Kevin H.

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:30 pm

Vincent,
If you install cooling ducts and lines, the bearings will last longer regardless of whats causing the failures. Heat is the ultimate cause of failure, whether it is the result of heavy loading, poor air flow, improper torque, eccentricity, etc. The resultant heat destroys the lubricant, friction increases and the bearing fails. Cooling will also help with your brakes, and may reduce the incidence of the bearing failure. For sure it won't hurt and it may help.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:46 pm

I can attest to everything that Vincent has posted. I would bet money that he can change one of these things in under 15 mins. I remember him changing one on a Saturday and talking to him Sunday and the damn thing was already bad!

We have even marked all the nuts/bolts to make damn sure nothing is backing out. Nothing has ever moved (since he started using Loctite).

Could you have a crummy el-cheepo axle where the threads have stretched on it? That could introduce some play into the equation.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:26 am

Ryan Holton wrote:

Could you have a crummy el-cheepo axle where the threads have stretched on it? That could introduce some play into the equation.

The driver side axle (shorter one) has been replaced three times, but the parts were from NAPA/CarQuest so they were decent quality or at least as good as stock. The passenger side is the original with 175K miles on it. Both front hubs have been changed many times with no ryhme or reason to a particular side.

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:35 pm

Vincent Keene wrote:

Ryan Holton wrote:

Could you have a crummy el-cheepo axle where the threads have stretched on it? That could introduce some play into the equation.

The driver side axle (shorter one) has been replaced three times, but the parts were from NAPA/CarQuest so they were decent quality or at least as good as stock. The passenger side is the original with 175K miles on it. Both front hubs have been changed many times with no ryhme or reason to a particular side.

Well, the NAPA/CQ units are most likely reman. And with 175K and countless threadings and torquings, there is a decent chance that the snout of your shafts are not perfect.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:14 pm

Have you gone to wheels with less backspacing? I don't recall if that is more or less offset but what I mean is have you gone to wheels which significantly increase the track width of the car? If so, I "think" this puts more load on the hub bearings, especially if the tires are sticky.

Dick

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FWD Hubs (wheel bearings)

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