BMW e36 fluids

Adam Ligon · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:43 pm

Kevin Allen wrote:

Quote:

adam - the sky is blue

rich - no it's not, it's navy blue

adam - yea, like i said, it's blue

rich - wait, wait, wait..."IS" it blue or does it just appear blue to you?

whitney - there is scientific proof that it is blue

rich - no there isn't

whitney - yes there is..check www.theskyisblue.com

rich - i did and those figures can't be correct

kevin - i think it's blue, (like my subaru that's gonna kick all ya'lls buts)

tom - true-dat

adam - let's get back to the topic, the sky is blue and i'll put $$ on it

kevin - i'm out (i can't afford it now that i have 3 subies that are gonna kick all ya'lls buts)

tom - i'm in...wait, what am i in on???? oh yea, the sky is blue, bring it on

adam - how can you say those figures aren't correct...they were measured with a 4000k Color Spectrometer-o-scope.

rich - the 4000k Color Spectrometer-o-scope sucks

adam- wait, back on 1/2/2002 at 3:45am, 2/5/2002 at 5:34pm, 5/18/2003 at 7:34am, 9/8/2003 at 9:12pm, 12/5/2003 at 1:23am and 2/2/2004 at 6:45am that you liked the 4000k Color Spectrometer-o-scope

rich - no i didn't

adam- yes you did

rich - no i didn't

whitney - yes you did

meant in fun guys, please don't kick me in the shins on sunday
_________________
95 miata r
89 vw gti 16v

quoted (but edited) from the man himself... Chris Brown!!! Give it up!!! Whoooo!!!

Classic

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:46 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

Ooooh, let's fight about oil. That will be fun.

I needed something interesting to read. It's been a boring day.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

How about http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ for some real tech.

robharvey · **Posted:** Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:08 pm

For the engine, I use 5W-30 Castrol synthetic. I don't have any "tick" issues.

For the Tranny and Diff, I use the same as those posted by M.Whitney.

For those of you that have M3's, how much oil does you engine consume? I'm going through ~1 quart every 3K miles (no smoke out the exhaust and no leaks from the engine).

DanDurusky · **Joined:** Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:31 pm **Posts:** 686

hrmm interesting. i think i'm gonna give 10w40 amsoil a shot and meet you guys in the middle.

theres a guy up in north raleigh who sells it for the price of M1 synth ~$5/qt

15w50 is doing fine now, but every cold morning i picture an oil pan full of tar and bare naked pistons screetching through the cylinders.. :shock:

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:18 pm

DanDurusky wrote:

hrmm interesting. i think i'm gonna give 10w40 amsoil a shot and meet you guys in the middle.

theres a guy up in north raleigh who sells it for the price of M1 synth ~$5/qt

Follow Wes's link and search those forums before you pick Amsoil over M1. There is nothing wrong with Amsoil, but the new Mobil 1 EP is an extremely stout oil.

George Bright · **Posted:** Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:36 pm

By the way I run 20W - 50 in my POS because it burns the thin stuff.

AdamMenges · **Posted:** Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:39 pm

I'm running BMW 5w-30 in the '95. The guys at Shadetree recommended it, and thats good enough for me. Ticked a bit at the auto-x, but never makes a sound driving around town. May give the next weight up a shot and see how it does, especially if I decide to start taking it to events.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

All right, you guys have almost convinced me I need to lighten up. My oil that is.

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

A couple of comments and question you might want to think about on your specific engine (any of you).

Since I'm running the Z on the track and the oil temps were getting mighty high. I thought dumping the M1 5w-30 and going with 15w-50 or 20w-50 would help. I haven't actually done it to find out yet. I was told to be careful on the LSx family engines with heavy oil. Getting it from the top of the engine to the bottom. Oil galleys are not that large. So when it is really hot on the track it flows just fine. Then the rest of the time I'm not on the track it doesn't. Starving the bottom end of the engine to quiet valvetrain noise would be a bad trade-off. It might not affect your particular engine.

If this is a known issue with BMW engines? Isn't there a better solution? Readjust valve lash? Different valve covers that mask the ticking noise? I know on the LT1 they are noisey and customers complained about the 92 like mine. So in 93 GM swapped from Magnesium covers to a Ceramic type. Quietened them down a lot.

Graham

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Graham Jagger wrote:

A couple of comments and question you might want to think about on your specific engine (any of you).

Since I'm running the Z on the track and the oil temps were getting mighty high. I thought dumping the M1 5w-30 and going with 15w-50 or 20w-50 would help. I haven't actually done it to find out yet. I was told to be careful on the LSx family engines with heavy oil. Getting it from the top of the engine to the bottom. Oil galleys are not that large. So when it is really hot on the track it flows just fine. Then the rest of the time I'm not on the track it doesn't. Starving the bottom end of the engine to quiet valvetrain noise would be a bad trade-off. It might not affect your particular engine.

If this is a known issue with BMW engines? Isn't there a better solution? Readjust valve lash? Different valve covers that mask the ticking noise? I know on the LT1 they are noisey and customers complained about the 92 like mine. So in 93 GM swapped from Magnesium covers to a Ceramic type. Quietened them down a lot.

Graham

I haven't found a definitive answer on what causes it or what the risks are, but here's what I know and think: The car only ticks when heavily abused at the autocross. It Is driving style dependent - when Kendra has co-driven the car, I get the ticks bad, and she doesn't. I believe that slapping the car around on course momentarily uncovers the oil pickup and the it sucks up an air bubble occasionally. These bubbles lodge themselves in the hydraulic lifters and temporarily suspend the self-adjustment mechanism and basically allow the valve to go "soft". I believe the tick is the sound of the cam(s) slapping the lifter. So I assume there might be some minor wear issues when there is a tick, but more importantly (!!) it's a performance problem because the valve won't be opening all the way. Either way, a few minutes of normal driving or revving the engine flushes the bubble and all is well. But I still wish I could find a way to keep it from happening.

It also seems that some cars do it, some don't, but as I said I have first-hand experience that more aggressive driving exacerbates the problem. Which means I can probably get anyone's M3 to tick

However, Rob's car doesn't seem to have any tick problem so maybe something else is going on.

When I went from 5-30 to 15-50 and the problem diminished I assumed it was because the 15-50 had less "slosh" and therefore uncovered the pickup less often. But it could be something else or I could be imagining it. Maybe it's time for a test with 5-30 or the stuff Rob uses.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:21 am

Mike,

Have you checked with top level BMW performance folks such as Bob Tunnell? Seems like some serious Solo 2 Stock folks (Tunnell has done lots of Stock autocrossing) would have some good data. You might even check with Sam Strano since he deals with top level BMW folks also.

Charlie Guthrie · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:14 pm **Posts:** 832

Wow, thanks Kevin. This is the most fun thread I can recall.

Regarding Rich's quote:

Quote:

Bearing science has come a long way as well.

This is one that I would like some references on. From my perspective, bearing science has not come very far in the past twenty years. The tolerances of the machined parts have improved substantially, but plain bearings (as found in the cam shaft and journal bearings) are still essentially soft babbit material over steel. Improved? Yes, but I must be missing something if they have come "a long way."
Not picking a fight, if you know something I don't know about bearings I would appreciate a link.
Charlie Guthrie

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Mike,

I would tend to agree with your theory on the oil pickup getting momentarily starved. Especially the way you drive vs. Kendra :lol:

So far what I have learned about the LTx and LSx family engines in that regard. Autocross doesn't seem to bother them because the duration is short. And in my case I'm a lot slower than you :lol:

On track in long high G turns and especially mixing in a banked track will cause oil starvation issues. The common answer I get is add an oil cooler if it constantly runs too hot. Or go all the way and add an accusump. The sump will allow more oil so it runs cooler and will cure oil starvation issues due to G forces and the like. But then the car is no longer stock and you have another maintenence item to deal with.

Graham

DanDurusky · **Joined:** Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:31 pm **Posts:** 686

yeh, id really like to get to the bottom of this. the range of opinions on the matter is really staggaring, but most are from dumb kids w/ 20" wheels so i have no idea what to believe.

if you guys dig up anything from the BMW pros be sure to let us all know..

i think i'm going to try the 10w40 tomorrow and see what happens. im tempted to try 5w30 also becasue itll be cold soon.. so maybe a 5w30 winter/10w40 summer plan.. hrm

this is the kind of stupid thing that keeps me up all night

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