THSCC Forums

I've been pondering this for days. I bet there is some effect but it's muted on dirt. I can't imagine that a slightly increased slip angle on such a slippery surface accounts for much.

Still, if it's possible, I'd like to get the car into spec just as an experiment to see how much 3/8" of rear toe makes on dirt. I just don't know.

Bret, do you think it would be possible to slot the subframe holes without having to remove lots of stuff? Could I yank the trailing arms back and out of the subframe without removing the axles, brake lines, etc? I doubt it but I will defer to your expert opinion

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

I wonder ... how strong would a mounting point have to be? I can picture putting chains around the ends of the subframe and mounting it to *something* in front of and below it (considered my trailer tiedowns briefly but then realized how much force we're talking about!), and looping a chain over the center of the subframe and tie it to something that can move. But I bet the diff is in the way, and with angles I'll be pushing the subframe down against the bushings more than creating a bending force anyways... So I haven't come up with anything yet either.

Once in a while I wonder wha kind of accident I would need to get into to accomplish my goals

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Mike,

you could slot the subframe holes without removing it- but you'll probably use up $100 in Dremel bits doing so....well, maybe not that much but... I guess it's worth a try- to save the hassle of dropping the main subframe bar.

You can pull the trailing arm pretty easily, I would plan on removing the brake line (easy) and the parking brake cable (pretty easy) so that it will drop down out of the way enough to get some work done in there. You'll have to remove the lower shock bolt, the sway bar end link, the ABS sensor (unplugs), brake pad warning sensor (if it's the right rear), then the 2 large pivot bolts that hold the trailing arm to the subframe bar. With the trailing arm loose, you should be able to pull on the axle halfshaft enough so that the stub axle pops out of the diff- this will save you from having to pull the 6 allen bolts that hold the halfshaft to the stub axle.

It'll be tight working in there- that's why I suggested the use of a Dremel- a flexible shaft attachment for a die grinder would work as well.

You can make your own eccentric bolts with some washers + some welding.


Bret.

Translation: Bret says bring it over to his place and he'll do it for you...er I mean help you do it.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

Now where did that idea come from?
FWIW, Bret has done quite good e30 subframe work before including helping raise one 2" into the car to correct the crappy rear roll center that results from lowering and making one adjustable for toe and camber. If you do raise the subframe, you have to be careful that the driveshaft doesn't rub on the gas tank.

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Rich
http://www.v8mongrel.com/

Bret, just as a "yardstick" to measure my own meager (actually capable but slow) mechanical skills:

How long would it take you to remove, and how long to reinstall a subframe?

Like I said, I'd give myself 12 hrs to remove and another 8 hours to put it back together.

_________________
Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Mike,

no way would it take you 12 hours to remove the subframe- unless the subframe bushings are corrosion-welded to the mounts, which is a distinct possibility and a major PITA.

I can get a diff out of a car in a junkyard, no lift, using hand tools only, in 45 minutes to 1 hour- but I've probably done 15-20 of them in the past year. Once the diff is out, you can get the whole subframe out, including both trailing arms, in another hour or so- barring the stuck subframe mounts mentioned above. It is possible to remove the whole subframe/trailing arms/diff as one unit as well, but it's a heavy piece to handle once it's loose. Also, the weight of the diff tends to cause the subframe mounts to bind on the threaded studs that hold them to the body.

So, even if you take your time, and it takes you twice as long as my estimate- that's 4 hours, not 12. I'd estimate 1-2 hours to put it all back together.

It's really not that hard, and there's not that much to it. The main potential "gotcha" would have to be those damned subframe bushings. If you decide to do this, I'd suggest pre-treating them with some penetrant/lube well ahead of time to make them easier to remove. The problem tends to be that the alloy inner piece of the bushing is a snug fit into the round recess in the body, which is steel- add in a little dissimilar-metal corrosion, and they can get pretty well stuck.


Let me know if you want to do it, I can give you a couple of other hints that could save you some time + headaches.

Bret.