⚠ Forum Archived — The THSCC forums were discontinued (last post: 2024-05-18). This read-only archive preserves club history. Visit thscc.com →  |  Search this archive with Google: site:forums.thscc.com your search terms

THSCC Forums

Tarheel Sports Car Club Forums
It is currently Tue Apr 07, 2026 10:08 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Learning to Weld. Community College a good place to start?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:04 pm 
Offline
Retired Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:34 pm
Posts: 3276
Location: Durham, NC
Ok, I am wanting to learn to weld. I know there is the good of fashion "self taught" method. I expect I will get enough of that regardless of what I do. But I am curious if anyone has gone the Community College Welding class route?? If so, any recommendations?

_________________
Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Learning to Weld. Community College a good place to sta
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:38 pm 
Offline
I err on the side of being stupid
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:15 pm
Posts: 4743
Location: Greenville, NC
Richard Casto wrote:
Ok, I am wanting to learn to weld. I know there is the good of fashion "self taught" method. I expect I will get enough of that regardless of what I do. But I am curious if anyone has gone the Community College Welding class route?? If so, any recommendations?


PM Joel Heywood, he did the CC route and loved it.

_________________
02 Focus SVT
STF 9


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 5:51 pm
Posts: 108
Wake Tech has a great night program going that can get you started in MIG or TIG.

_________________
2004 Ranger Edge
2003 Buell XB9R
2004 Trek 4900
2004 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Expert Disc
2004 Lemond Reno


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: learning to weld
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 9:34 am
Posts: 50
Richard,
I would strongly recommend the C.C. route. It is very easy to pick up other peoples "bad habits" by watching over their shoulder.
You will be taught the proper way to weld .
It's the route I chose many years ago and I don't regret an evening spent.
Back then ,they started you on oxy-acetylene to get you used to controling a liqid pool of metal. It made the transition to TIG very easy ..very similar techniques.
Then you moved to stick welding,which I still use even on cages ,for those very hard places to reach that you can't get a MIG gun at. Plus most trailer and heavier welding is better done by stick welding.
MIG is the easiest,yet the easiest to do wrong. Machine setting and material cleanliness is critical.
These are the things you will learn in class by a certified instructor...just like driving school .
Good luck and be glad to help if I can.
Later,
Chris


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:43 pm 
Offline
Retired Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:34 pm
Posts: 3276
Location: Durham, NC
Thanks for the feedback.

Couple of questions. I noticed on the Wake Tech site they list a handfull of different classes.

http://www.waketech.edu/catalog/coursedes/wld.html

Some have prerequisites, but most don't. it generally seems they fall into...

1. Oxy-acetylene
2. Stick
3. MIG
4. TIG

Basically it looks like you could jump right into any of the above from the start. I realized you may want to take them in the Oxy-acetylene, Stick then MIG or TIG order, but without trying to fill up all of my evenings for four months (need time to actually work on the new car as well as spend time with the family) is there any reason to not just jump into an entry MIG class for example?

Basically I am thinking I am going to be able to devote, one, maybe two evenings a week at the tops. I don't want to just take Oxy-acetylene with the realization that on the nights I am not in class, I am figuring out how to MIG weld on my own while working on my project car.

Some of this might be a moot point with regards to Wake Tech anyhow. I think there is room in an Oxy-acetelene class, but the TIG class is full and the MIG class is the second part of a two part class. I would need the first part first. I also suspect that Fall classes are about to begin any day now, so I may be out of luck for the fall semester.

_________________
Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:23 am 
Offline
Mr. Wizard
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 3:15 pm
Posts: 85
If you can swing the commute, Alamance has a welding program that's quite good. I live in Durham and worked in the park, and had no problem with it. It was a 30-35 minute drive.

You'll probably need to learn to cut, too. Cutting involves either a plasma cutter ($$$$), a bandsaw ($$$), or an oxy-acetylene rig. Oxy-acetylene rigs are cheap, they don't require electricity, they require less protective gear than any of the arc methods, you can use them anywhere, and they cut, weld, braze, preheat, loosen rusted nuts, and light cigars. Using a torch is a difficult thing to master, but I'd really recommend starting out with that.

Plus, once you get the hang of torch, everything else is easy.

_________________
1988 Plymouth Reliant


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 9:34 am
Posts: 50
Richard,
Don't be disappointed if you can only get into the oxy-actylene class. What you learn there will have some carry over to your MIG welding. What you are trying to accomplish is the same..even fusion into both sides and good penetration.
Alamance has a great program.
I must take exception to the remark that being able to use a cutting torch will make you a good welder. Totally different things .And I've never been burnt worse than when I've been using a cutting torch .I've got the scars to prove it,so wear more protection when you are using a cutting torch.hot pieces tend to go down your belt line and into your boots.
Good luck,
Chris


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:55 am 
Offline
Mr. Wizard
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 3:15 pm
Posts: 85
Chris Schimmel wrote:
I must take exception to the remark that being able to use a cutting torch will make you a good welder. Totally different things .
I didn't say that. It's just one of the things you can do with an oxy-acetylene rig. Welding is torch, too.

_________________
1988 Plymouth Reliant


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:49 pm 
Offline
Republican
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:25 pm
Posts: 4356
Location: MWI/MUI Kubota FTW
mmmmm cigars.

BTW off topic as it is, R&J is looking for an experienced welder.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:02 pm 
Offline
So I had this dream last night...
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:00 am
Posts: 370
Location: Oh, just Cary. Innocent little Cary.
This question is a no brainer. Why? Here's a really good reason to go to take a welding class at community college:

The cost of the class is far less than the cost of the metal, gas, electricty, and supplies you would use for the same amount of "learn it yourself" welding.

Fortunately for you, the price structure follows the rest of the college, even though other courses, like, say, real estate, use no metal, gas, electrodes, and (in comparison) near zero electricty. The shop classes are heavily subsidized.

Bottom line, you save money (for the same amount of welding) by doing it there. Are you really going to go buy your welding rig, then drop a couple hundred on gas, electrodes, and wire to use while practicing?

I took the TIG class. It was great. :) We basically learned mild steel, stainless, and aluminum.

Cheers,
Anders

_________________
Lina Racing: As Seen On Radio


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 5:51 pm
Posts: 108
AndersGreen wrote:
The cost of the class is far less than the cost of the metal, gas, electricty, and supplies you would use for the same amount of "learn it yourself" welding.


Thats a great point and one of the reasons I went to Wake Tech. I had no equipment or supplies to "learn myself". It cost about $100 a class and you get about all the lab time you can stand and an instructor helping you.

_________________
2004 Ranger Edge
2003 Buell XB9R
2004 Trek 4900
2004 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Expert Disc
2004 Lemond Reno


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:31 am 
Offline
Sponsored by Wal Mart!
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:37 pm
Posts: 687
Location: Making a mongrel
Would it be advisable to take a course before purchasing a welder?

_________________
Rich
http://www.v8mongrel.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:15 am 
Offline
So I had this dream last night...
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:00 am
Posts: 370
Location: Oh, just Cary. Innocent little Cary.
Rich Anderson wrote:
Would it be advisable to take a course before purchasing a welder?

I would either:
A) take a class first
B) read a welding book (not magazine articles) dedicated to the particular type of welding you want to do

You may feel that "oh, I want this or that feature" or "oh, I can do without this or that feature". Until you do it yourself, it's hard to say for sure. And since I already believe that you should take the class first (because it's better and cheaper) waiting to buy your welder makes sense, unless you have a big project you need to do.

The other route, reading a specialized book, should also impart enough knowledge and opinion about what is proper for the particular aspect of welding that you want to get into to guide you to the proper machine for what you're doing.

Cheers,
Anders

_________________
Lina Racing: As Seen On Radio


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 252
Location: Durham, NC, in my garage, breaking something on the RX-7
Heh. I'll add some fuel to the fire because I had to go and do it all "wrong". :D

I'd say to go through the class first unless:
1) You are very patient
2) You can find someone who knows what they are doing who can coach you a little bit (and you already have some experience, even welding MIG poorly helped me a little, but I was originally taught the very basics of MIG by an Uncle who was a "jack of all trades" who was good enough to work in this country as a weldor/fabricator although he was an auto mechanic overseas)
3) You don't have time to commit to the class because you already have a ton of other things but you have the disposable income to buy good equipment and all the necessary supplies yourself. Having said that, even with all that, it's still cheaper to bit the bullet and invest the time into the class (I'm still wishing I could take the class but I just don't have the time although hearing that Alamance has classes may actually make it possible because Wake Tech isn't a possibility for me given commute time/current employment)
4) Most importantly - you are not right in the head ... yeah, that would be me ;) ... and have this compulsion to do EVERYTHING yourself even if you have to scrap a ton of it and have grown to like unlearning/learning as you go along to progress to a goal

In other words, it can be done, but having gone through it (well, some of it, I'm pretty sure that Anders or Joel can probably weld circles around me), I would highly recommend against it. It's too frustrating, especially if you have projects waiting in line and you need at least some basic skills "yesterday".

My project(s) (aka the whole car) ended up going on the back-burner and is still there...I'm actually doing a cheap/small scale version of the "big project" to prepare for the "real thing", probably start on it towards the end of this season.

Continuing the story...I bought a welder because of necessity for the car project...well...a single project car that has multiple sub-projects and of course, the welder was a good deal (I had been shopping for a while and it popped up on e-bay at the right price and was about an hour's drive away, pretty hard to resist).

...so there I was with a fairly expensive arc generating device and so it sat for several months, stewing, until I was good and ready.

The first problem I had to overcome was that I needed to wire an additional circuit (which turned into an additional panel) in the garage, so make sure that you have those provisions setup beforehand if at all possible or that the 110V welder you are buying will have adequate power for the thickness of metals that you are going to be welding. That's pretty easy to do - just look at the specs of the welder and look at the things you are planning on welding. Re-wiring for 230V isn't terribly hard but it adds another step to the process...

Then I had to acquire gas for it...okay, shop around...find that buying a tank of gas works out best for a hobbyist (outlay of $120 or so and then refills are fairly cheap, like $20, IIRC). BTW - the welding supply place off Lease Ln in Raleigh (near K&E) has the best prices for hobbyists on stuff that I could find, although Chris may have another suggestion or better contacts since he has been doing this longer than all of us. National Welder's I found to be highly unfriendly in terms of quantities (i.e. they would only sell 10x the quantity of consumeables that I needed) and dollars for the same stuff, like gas, at least for a hobbyist "cash sale". Again, YMMV, and maybe I don't know the right people to talk to or right thing or way to ask for it.

After acquiring most of the basics and spending an inordinate amount of time and energy researching welding helmets, I was ready to go.

So, one evening, I hooked everything up and thus started learning the hard way, which is quite possibly the most expensive way to learn, not necessarily because of the machine/supplies, but because of how much you learn/progress per unit of time compared to what I think you probably would be able to do when in an classroom environment.

My next problem of course, was learning how to use the darned thing...I read and I read and the books and info I had were either too basic (Welding Essentials by William L., Jr. Galvery) or way too advanced at the time (Miller's TIG guide, free pdf's on their website). After significant seat time, the advanced stuff makes perfect sense to me. The rediculous part was how long it took to learn a few simple basic things that probably were covered in the first few hours of the course which would have made my life much easier. One mistake was not reading the welder's manual thoroughly and understanding how the different setting work - or rather, knowing what is normal for each process. I spent many hours with it setup "wrong" before I had one of those epiphanies at 2am (which of course required me to run down to the garage, change the settings and immediately see how much of a bonehead I was). Welding books are nice to talk about theory, setup, preparation, but I really think that having a live person explain the actual process and be able to look over your shoulder and give you feedback is the best way to learn.

That is probably the only good thing about doing it this way. You can schedule the learning experience around your schedule (many a time have I been up in the wee hours of the night pushing a pool of metal around) and you don't have to share with anyone (I dunno if it is a 1:1 ratio of students to machines at these classes).

While I strongly would advocate against it, I have to say it was rather rewarding to troubleshoot things, at least when I figured out how to overcome a major hurdle. A certain individual was extremely helpful in my times of frustration, they know who they are, and should they want recognition I'll be happy to give it.

BTW, I wouldn't and don't trust anything I do for any critical structure loads (rollcage, suspension members, etc). I still feel like I need to get better at it and then get someone to look over what I'm doing consistently to figure out if I've "got it" or need to modify what I'm doing. I may take the class if I ever can find the time but I seem to be "functional" for my current needs.

Regards,
--Ashraf


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:52 am 
Offline
Retired Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:34 pm
Posts: 3276
Location: Durham, NC
Thanks for all of the comments. So far I think I am going to...

* Probably take a class in the Spring Semester. The Fall classes have already started. I am going to try to find a MIG class.

* Shop for and maybe purchase a MIG unit. Probably will coincide with doing the CC class. Right now I am focusing on a 220 V unit that works with gas. It looks like Lincoln Electric has a model that fits this (The "175" model). As far as I can tell both Lowes and Home Depot sells versions of this that maybe are packaged slightly differently as well as has slightly different model numbers. I am having a hard time with this as the Lowes price seems to be much lower than what you see via other online welding supply houses (~$600 at Lowes and ~$700-800 elsewhere). Maybe Lowes is just ultra competative on their price. Maybe their package is leaving something out that I am not seeing.

* Looking for info on where to buy gas. The welding books I have been reading talk about rent vs. buy and it seems it is better (as Ashraf mentioned) to buy if you are do this as a hobby (don't go through much gas). Anybody have recommendations on where to get gas and what the tank size optons are?

_________________
Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group