New Shocks... new springs too?

PhilFausz · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:40 pm

I blew a rear shock in the 90 hatchback this week and because I don't know how many miles the front's have left on them, I'm planning on replacing all four with koni's (warranty + good product).

While I'm at it, I'm wondering if I should consider replacing the springs. This car will be my daily driver, but since the shocks will be externally adjustable, it can't be much worse than my crx at full hard all the time.

What can I expect from a different set of springs? How much more harsh will the ride get? What performance benefits are there? I know that lowering the car lowers the CG which is a big benefit, but what else?

Also, I've heard good things about ground control... any other good alternatives?

The car is an STS 90 civic hatchback (post Whitney) with a big rear bar that provides excelent oversteer.

One more thing, can anyone tell me if SS brake lines are legal for STS? I've just moved and can't locate my rulebook and STS is a new world for me!

Thanks folks!

phil

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

14.6b alternate flexible DOT brake lines are approved

Go to http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/ChrisTech.htm

Set up the car that way. Period.

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:58 pm

I have found that damping has more impact on ride quality than spring rate. Sure, if you run 1000 lb/in springs on a 2000 lb car, you won't have a nice ride, but double the spring rate seems to degrade the ride much less than doubling the damping. YMMV.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:03 pm

Phil,

I have the Ground Control + Koni Yellow on my Civic and have been very happy with them. One thing is that you can start out conservative with the spring rates (lower spring rates) and see how that works as far as a daily driver. Then it is pretty easy and cost effective to swap out the springs if you decided to increase the spring rate. There is a healthy market for used Eibach ERS springs that GC sells with their kit. You might want to look at the "springs for sale" thread on Honda-Tech.com to get an idea on what is out there and the prices.

For what it's worth, I run 400 lb/in in the front and 450 lb/in in the rear. I think this is pretty agressive for daily driver, but it works for me. Smooth highways are just fine, speed bumps and poorly maintained roads are not fun. You might consider springs in the 300 range as a good place to start. If you go the Ground Control route, they (Ground Control) probably will be able to suggest some spring rates if you say it is a dual purpose autocross/daily driver as well.

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

I have the ground control/ Koni combo on my 2.5RS. Spring rate is 350 lb/in all around, which I'm thinking is like using around 500 lb/in springs on a Civic (different motion ratios). Ride quality is ok, not cushy, but not horrible either. I just got back from taking 3 co-workers along for the ride during lunch, and nobody said anything about the ride quality. I have the Konis set midway between full soft & full stiff for just driving around, and go to almost full stiff in the rear for autox.

If you want the Civic to be a fun STS autox car, you NEED some stiff springs on there. And you don't have to have a national-level setup to have fun & get good local results, so don't worry about that.

Main things for an STS car are good shocks, good springs, good camber, good tires & replace any wornout bushings or other important suspension parts.

SS brake hoses are legal for STS, as are pads.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:10 pm

PhilFausz wrote:

..can't locate my rulebook and STS is a new world for me!

You can get the rules online now in PDF format. I don't have a direct link, but goto www.scca.com, select the "Solo" menu item on the left and then select the "Cars and Rules" sub-section. On that page is the link for the 2005 rules.

And Wes is correct. For your generation Civic that link he provided will give you a good setup. I believe that some even use that basic setup as a starting point (to a degree) for the CRX and I have used it somewhat for my car as well.

Welcome to STS!!

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:19 pm

Wes Eargle wrote:

14.6b alternate flexible DOT brake lines are approved

Go to http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/ChrisTech.htm

Set up the car that way. Period.

Wes hit the nail on the head. For EF AX tech, Red Shift is the place read up.

I might would go a bit conservative on the spring rates, it will only make it oversteer even more.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

You still have that POS? Is the hood still orange?

Sometimes I miss that car. No, not really

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:25 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

You still have that POS? Is the hood still orange?

Sometimes I miss that car. No, not really

Sometimes I wish I had bought the car when I had a chance to do so.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Richard Casto wrote:

MikeWhitney wrote:

You still have that POS? Is the hood still orange?

Sometimes I miss that car. No, not really

Sometimes I wish I had bought the car when I had a chance to do so.

Me too.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Wes Eargle wrote:

Richard Casto wrote:

MikeWhitney wrote:

You still have that POS? Is the hood still orange?

Sometimes I miss that car. No, not really

Sometimes I wish I had bought the car when I had a chance to do so.

Me too.

Phil - sounds like you may be set for a bidding war here. Maybe you could get enough $$ for it that you could buy a real car.

Hahahaha

You guys know I'm joking. I had 3 EFs... But that was enough for me

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:39 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

Wes Eargle wrote:

Richard Casto wrote:

MikeWhitney wrote:

You still have that POS? Is the hood still orange?

Sometimes I miss that car. No, not really

Sometimes I wish I had bought the car when I had a chance to do so.

Me too.

Phil - sounds like you may be set for a bidding war here. Maybe you could get enough $$ for it that you could buy a real car.

Hahahaha

You guys know I'm joking. I had 3 EFs... But that was enough for me

Yeah, I am trying to move onto other projects. But as you can see by Kevin's hint at a co-drive, I also would love to drive one that has all of the standard STS tweaks. I haven't driven one yet that has been setup right and I am really curious as to what it is like. I think Kevin drove one last year and loved it!

Phil just has to work the co-driver angle a bit and he might get some of these mods partially paid for!

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

It's like driving a big go-kart. A prepped STS Civic with a really good driver would've run a 47.xxx at Danville. :oops:

PhilFausz · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:04 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

You still have that POS? Is the hood still orange?

Sometimes I miss that car. No, not really

Yes, it's got over 220,000 miles now and get around 37 mpg. Considering I've got an engine that's already rebuilt, a spare transmission with new clutch parts, and the rest of the 90 crx for parts... I'll probably have this car for a while.

One day, an M3 will be the car for me, but right now, I'm still adjusting to feeding another mouth and living on one paycheck. I'll check out that website before buying anything.

Hmm, haven't heard back from GH regarding prices for koni's!!!

phil

DanDurusky · **Joined:** Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:31 pm **Posts:** 686

going from busted old shocks to new Konis (even w/ stock springs) will make it feel like an M3

shocks are huge

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