THSCC Forums

Now that NOV is a year-long points class, absolutely, people will be running race tires, and there isn't anything wrong with it. It was predicted that NOV just got a lot more expensive cause the class winners are going to go for the points instead of being kicked out as they were before. Fortunately or unfortunately the NOV trophy spots may be dominated by very fast people, with properly prepped cars, all year long.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

i still disagree with the year long novice thing, but that is beside the point.

if it is within the limitations of the rules, i dont think anyone would find it unethical at all. you are still being compared with PAX times, which should *theoretically* even up the field as far as level of car prep

I think the rule should be changed for NOV and STS, orginally for the rule was made because it was assumed that most novices would be running on street tires, and if someone showed up on R com they would only be running at a max 3 events, if they did not win they event they showed up on R comps. With a year long novice class it seems only fair to let people who have cars setup for STS to Run Novice, becuase who know what tires novices will be on when competiting for a year end trophy. However STS cars should not be able to run in the Tire class for obvious reasons.

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David Teague
2015 Lexus IS 250c
1994 Honda Del Sol HS 39
2009 Dodge Journey R/T
http://teaguefamily.us

I don't know about the logic behind it, but a true "novice" wouldn't have a fully prepped STS car unless they just happened to be lucky in their mods. Also, a true "novice" wouldn't bring race rubber to an event. There should be some self policing out there.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Unless the true novice was being introduced to the sport by being allowed to borrow an established competitor's car. I know of a couple people who started that way, albeit, not for a full season.

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Rich
http://www.v8mongrel.com/

Why not? Don't forget, there are going to be novices in NOV class with over a year of experience and possibly 8+ events experience before the end of the year.

Just because YOU and I chose to drive underprepared cars on crappy tires for a few years to hone our skills. It doesn't mean that is what other people want to do. Autocross is about maximizing advantages of the rules. It is behavior that cannot be discouraged and in fact needs to be encouraged.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

I agree totally about the NOV issue.

ST* in TIR could be made to work, but is probably not worth the effort to make it work.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

Well here's a practical examples. my friend and i are both starting out (i have one event more experience than him, but he wooped me last event) and we have the same cars. He is in STX and if i'm on R comps i will be in ESP and lets assume we're both in NOV. i "should" be faster than him because of my tires, but because i'm in ESP and he's in STX he should get a better PAX and thus even things out. so i guess it is fair in theory, but we're now relying on 2 layers of handicaps to settle the score. in you all's experience does these PAXs work out as intended?

i mean, if you really wanted a fair race youd run the same exact cars, not rely on handicaps, etc cuz it isnt that simple. i guess by running Rcomps i feel i'm relying too heavily on handicaps which may or may not work, blah blah.

but yes, all this typing (slow day at work) is needless because the rules are the rules and thats pretty much all that matters.

thanks all. /rambling. i guess i'll stay NOV all year and start on the Rcomps for event #3, just dotn give me evil eyes, i tried not to do it

You also have to factor in how competitive the car you're driving is in the class you're running.

For example, if you're running and ESP STi and your friend is running an HS Chevette... Ummm, guess who has the advantage?

The indices are just a bunch of random numbers, unless you're in a fully-prepared, nationally competitive car on a national-level course, on a national-level surface, and the weather is JUUUST RIGHT. Don't pay too much attention to pax index right now, just focus on having fun. If you get serious about it at some point, you'll pick a class and buy a car that's competitive in that class, then prep it to the limit of the rules. At that point, all you'll have to blame if you lose is... the course favored the other car; the surface favored the other car; I corded a tire; it was raining, and that favored the other car; I spun & got dirt in my eyes; etc. etc. etc.

It's just too complicated to worry about at this point - just go have fun!!! With whatever tires/ car/ class YOU choose to run.

pleeeeeeeease drop out of NOV class. the more fast drivers that move to a new class the better my scores will look on paper. which of these looks better to you all: finished fifth out of 5 OR finished 28th out of 28 ???

but seriously, true novice or not, the competitive nature of this hobby is going to prevail. i applaude anyone who would spend money and time on a car to be competitive. it ain't like i'm not looking for any advantage i can pick-up given my slow ass driving skills. i know why i'm slow, and it is not the tires or the car.

will highly prepared cars in novice class run some novices away from AutoX? i don't know, i can see where it could be intimidating. truth be told other than X class (if i understand those rules) NOV is the only class pitting driver against driver irregardless of car entered. sort of gives one a truer prospective of their abilities IMO. i look at the M3 that tore up novice @ laurinburg as not a much faster car than mine, maybe 1/2 a second or so.

NOV class offers THSCC the greatest oppurtunity for new member enrichment so to speak. it spotlights the noobs and thus allows the club to help them fit in better. anyway, i have a trailer to load up and it ain't getting done from my soapbox.