THSCC Forums

OK, I need some advice from all you speed racers out there in track land. I've seen a few pictures of the bimmer leaning in the turns and it's frightening. Another inch lower and I'll be scraping white paint all over the tarmac (watching too much WRC). In reading some of the tech forums and considering I'm staying stock class, I can go to a heavier sway bar, but I understand that a stiffer front end will induce more under steer (which may be a good thing considering the way I drive).

I need to replace the front control arms and thought this would be a good time to address the lean. What advice do you have for me to keep the car flatter in the corners? At a minimum I'm thinking about just adding poly bushings. Can any one also suggest a place to buy another sway? Don't need the set, just the front bar should I decide to head in that direction.

One additional side bar question. I understand that I can use the e30 control arms as direct replacements for the e36. The e30 style uses metal in place of some of rubber components to increase durability. Does this violate stock class?

Thanks

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Rodney

'08 Bullitt mustang, CAM 7
Autox VP '09-'10, President '11-'12, interim President 2nd half of ‘14
proud recipient of the Bowie Grey service award '12
Now just a guy driving a mustang....

All you can do in Stock to reduce lean is to use a bigger front anti roll bar (with "any" anti roll bar bushings for the front bar). However, it may not increase understeer since camber control will probably be improved enough to compensate for the increased front stiffness. You need a rule book.

Dick

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

The control arms would be illegal, but you could put on stiffer springs and head over to STS ...

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Stock = nothing you can do about it (other than the big front sway bar)

STS = fun, fun, fun & I'd suggest bushings, springs & sway bars at both ends

What kind of dampers are you using?

Plenty of people have run E36 BMW's nationally, there are probably plenty of winning formulas out there.

If it were my car and I wanted to remain stock legal I would just do Koni shocks and a bigger front sway bar. Sway bars are relatively cheap, so if you don't like it you can always go back without much financial loss.

The E30 control arms wouldn't be legal in most classes (Stock, SP, STS/X, are all out).

Scott

Yeah, if you're still on the stock shocks, you should upgrade to Konis (or Bilsteins or whatever). I have Konis on one of my RSes (and have had them on the other one) and they make a pretty large difference even with everything else stock. Add a big front bar & it's even better.

Here's a link to the most successful BMW autocrosser around. Notice that lots of his mods are only legal in SP or SM. A rulebook will help you a lot.

Unofficial, slightly out of date online rules:
http://moutons.org/sccasolo/

E36 M3 setup:
http://www.tunnellracing.com./M3toBSP.htm

The most important thing to notice for your situation is that, even with very high spring rates Bob is still running quite large swaybars.

The benefit of big front bars on strut cars is that the improved grip from better roll control more than offsets the decrease in grip from greater weight transfer. The end result is a much faster car on course even if it doesn't feel quite as good.

--Kevin H.

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2003 WRX (again!)

Rodney -

You know that there is nothing inherently wrong or dangerous about lean, right?

The only bad things about it are relatively minor. Keeping in mind that weight transfer CAUSES lean (not the other way around), there are only 2 problems with more "lean" (1) less camber control, and (2) *slightly* more weight transfer (movement of the car's CG during lean).

Just changing those 2 things ain't going to make a car go a whole lot faster. A little faster, sure.

Personally, I wouldn't use lean as a sole reason to move to STS. If you want to do some other things, or if you want to go much faster, or if some other stuff needs to be changed, or if you just want to "mod", then sure. Go for it.

Now, back to your original question I'm not sure what the effect of just a front bar on a stock BMW would be. I would have to guess understeer. Doesn't seem right to me that on that car you would get "enough" grip back because of camber control.

I'd suggest you call Bimmerhaus (in CO?) and talk to Bob Tunnel (I think he's still the guy there). Those guys autocross a LOT of damn BMWs, and nationally competitively too! I bet he could rattle off an E36 DS setup in his sleep If they can help, cool. If not, call Bimmerworld, then Turner. Those guys probably don't have as much stock-class setup experience, but I am sure they would be happy to sell you something.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

I agree with Mike...call Bob Tunnell and talk with him.( not before Nationals though, everyone's mind is on their game right now.)He's a good guy and easy to talk to, especially about bimmers, but about anything auto related.