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 Post subject: Since there was no Auto-X today . .
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:16 pm 
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Location: Wake Forest, NC
I set my ride height and corner weights. I'll spare you the iterative steps, here are the final results with 5/8 tank of gas, 1 fat-assed driver and swaybars disconnected:

Image

Happy with the cross weight - 1lb difference.

L/R distribution is OK. Would like it to be 50/50.

F/R distribution is improved from 65/35 (before doing the adjustable rear perches) to almost 60/40.

OK, when/where is our next event? :mrgreen:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Since there was no Auto-X today . .
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:55 pm 
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Looks mean Cash. Your in luck, the EV Challenge/ Test-N-Tune on April 6th but I heard there may be another event between now and then.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=14051

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 Post subject: Re: Since there was no Auto-X today . .
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:33 pm 
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Jordan Normark wrote:
Looks mean Cash. Your in luck, the EV Challenge/ Test-N-Tune on April 6th but I heard there may be another event between now and then.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=14051


Thanks, Jordan. I'm excited to see how it works! I'm hoping for another THSCC event in March. I won't be able to make the EV event - I'll be at VIR. I'll be doing the following between now & then:

3/15 - AutoX @ Wilmington
3/23 - AutoX @ Winston-Salem
3/30 - AutoX @ Cherry Pt (maybe)

4/5&6 - VIR!

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11 Fusion - Wife's DD
03 Mazda6 - Track car
00 PSD Excursion - Tow rig
67 Firebird - Don't you still own your 1st car?
61 F100 - Dad's truck
90 Moto Guzzi Calif III - Tourer
00 Cagiva - Adventure bike
00 DRZ400 - Woods bike


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 Post subject: Re: Since there was no Auto-X today . .
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:19 am 
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Honda >> Ford
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Why disconnect the sway bars?

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 Post subject: Re: Since there was no Auto-X today . .
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:07 am 
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Arthur McDonald wrote:
Why disconnect the sway bars?


Because as you raise or lower one corner, you twist the bar and transfer load to or from the other side adding pre-load to the bar. After all the adjustments are complete (with the bars disconnected), you then adjust the endlinks (yes mine are adjustable) so they just slide into the swaybar hole (this is done with the driver in the car) so there is no preload on the bar. If you do this without the driver in the car, the weight of the driver will pre-load the bar. If the bar has preload, as it enters a corner (say left) it will have to untwist before it can transfer load, while in a right turn it will transfer load immediately.

I didn't mention it, but I also disconnected all the shocks because as the perches are adjusted up or down, it tends to bind the spring. After each adjustment we bounced the car vigorously at each corner - you could hear the spring go BOING as the bind was relieved. Then we rolled it back onto the scales. You really can't do this with the shocks connected because the dampening works against you. Obviously, if you have a strut suspension you can't do this either.

Other tips:
You want a really flat garage floor - I actually took the car and scales to a friends house because my floor is like a hyperbolid paraboloid (it ain't flat).
Air up the tires to what you would normally run.
Roll the car off the scales to make adjustments. I have blocks the same height as the scales set directly behind them.
Make sure the tires are in the center of the scales. We fussed around with this a while then chalked the tires to make sure we rolled it back to the same spot each time.

Ride height:
There is enough adjustment to drag the rockers, but that is not a functional ride height. I went back to my data acquisition files from VIR and CMP to find the max vertical Gs (max load on the suspension). 25min on the track generates about 25,000 data points - so 4 sessions gives me lots of data. At VIR, max vertical was 1.38g and it occurred at the bottom of hogpen as you might expect (max lateral Gs also occurred there - 1.53g. That's why that corner is so much fun!). At CMP max vert of 1.23g occurred while jumping the curb at T3.

I have alot more available travel in the rear than the front so lets start there. Let’s say we’re going to lower the car to the point where we have 2.5” of suspension travel before hitting the bumpstops. For simplicity, let’s say we have 900lbs resting on each front wheel. I haven’t weighed the wheels, tires, knuckles, control arms, strut, spring and CV shaft, but I guessing there’s about 150lbs of unsprung weight at each corner - leaving 750lbs of sprung. Based on our data, we design for a maximum 1.5g bump. Based on these assumptions, we would be absorbing a 750*1.5=1125lb force over 2.5”, therefore requiring a minimum wheelrate of 1125/2.5=450lb/in.
Of course wheel rate and spring rate are not the same, but they a related by a constant that is a function of the control arm linkage ratios, the instant center of the front suspension and angle of the spring. On my car, I found WR=0.64SR or SR=WR/0.64 Therefore we, need a 703lb/in spring to handle a 1.5g bump in 2.5 inches. The new front springs I just installed on my bilsteins are 700lb/in.

I set my front ride height leaving myself the 2.5" of available travel and then adjusted the rear to give me about 3/4" of rake. When you put the car on the scales and have an imbalance in cross weight, you can correct it by adjusting any one of the 4 corners as the screen shot shows. You choose which corner to adjust by comparing the ride heights at each corner with the intent of getting them equal along with the cross weight. In the end, I got the fronts within a 1/16" and the rears within an 1/8" with the rear being about 3/4" higher than the front.

Yeah, I know - too much time on my hands. When you share a house with 4 women, you spend alot of time in the garage. :D

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09 Bullitt - DD
11 Fusion - Wife's DD
03 Mazda6 - Track car
00 PSD Excursion - Tow rig
67 Firebird - Don't you still own your 1st car?
61 F100 - Dad's truck
90 Moto Guzzi Calif III - Tourer
00 Cagiva - Adventure bike
00 DRZ400 - Woods bike


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 Post subject: Re: Since there was no Auto-X today . .
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:29 am 
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Location: Raleigh, NC
Do you take appointments? More importantly, do you take beer for payment?

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 Post subject: Re: Since there was no Auto-X today . .
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:13 pm 
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Cash, why do you assume that you don't want it on the bump stops. Tune the bump stops right and you can run less spring/lower. Bump stops are just springs.


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 Post subject: Re: Since there was no Auto-X today . .
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:37 pm 
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Location: Durham, NC
The transition from springs, to bump stops + springs usually invites lots of fun.

And by fun I mean spinning off hogpen.


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 Post subject: Re: Since there was no Auto-X today . .
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:28 pm 
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Scott Johnson wrote:
Cash, why do you assume that you don't want it on the bump stops. Tune the bump stops right and you can run less spring/lower. Bump stops are just springs.


I don't have those nice cushy bump stops that most people have on their strut rods. I have pretty stiff poly pucks above the upper A-arms:

Image


JamesMilko wrote:
The transition from springs, to bump stops + springs usually invites lots of fun.

And by fun I mean spinning off hogpen.


True - I'd like to avoid that. :D

_________________
09 Bullitt - DD
11 Fusion - Wife's DD
03 Mazda6 - Track car
00 PSD Excursion - Tow rig
67 Firebird - Don't you still own your 1st car?
61 F100 - Dad's truck
90 Moto Guzzi Calif III - Tourer
00 Cagiva - Adventure bike
00 DRZ400 - Woods bike


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 Post subject: Re: Since there was no Auto-X today . .
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:03 pm 
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Steven Carter wrote:
Do you take appointments? More importantly, do you take beer for payment?


I have been known to do it for pizza & beer. The problem is my garage floor sucks so I have to pack everything up and haul it to someone's house and it becomes a half-day event for one car. So its not completely out of the question - just a scheduling thing.

I was thinking maybe the next time I'm set up, let people know and maybe we could do 2 or 3 cars in a half day.

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09 Bullitt - DD
11 Fusion - Wife's DD
03 Mazda6 - Track car
00 PSD Excursion - Tow rig
67 Firebird - Don't you still own your 1st car?
61 F100 - Dad's truck
90 Moto Guzzi Calif III - Tourer
00 Cagiva - Adventure bike
00 DRZ400 - Woods bike


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 Post subject: Re: Since there was no Auto-X today . .
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:10 pm 
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You're just jealous

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:14 pm
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Location: Raleigh, NC
Scott Johnson wrote:
Cash, why do you assume that you don't want it on the bump stops. Tune the bump stops right and you can run less spring/lower. Bump stops are just springs.


If you want to use "bump stops" for springs you can get an F500 car. Either with 2 cycle or 600 cc 4 cycle engine :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Since there was no Auto-X today . .
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:21 pm 
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Cash Davidson wrote:
Steven Carter wrote:
Do you take appointments? More importantly, do you take beer for payment?


I have been known to do it for pizza & beer. The problem is my garage floor sucks so I have to pack everything up and haul it to someone's house and it becomes a half-day event for one car. So its not completely out of the question - just a scheduling thing.

I was thinking maybe the next time I'm set up, let people know and maybe we could do 2 or 3 cars in a half day.


Let me know, I'd like to be a part of this. I can provide labor, pizza and beer. My garage floor is pretty flat, not sure if it's billiard table level though.

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 Post subject: Re: Since there was no Auto-X today . .
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:38 pm 
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2 or 3 cars in a half day sounds reasonable as long as the beer drinking starts after the 2nd or 3rd car :D I have been in talks with Robert Plank about aligning and corner balancing the Miata. I know he wants to do his Porsche too. Are these the scales that are owned by a group of individuals in the club?

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 Post subject: Re: Since there was no Auto-X today . .
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:47 pm 
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Location: Wake Forest, NC
Jordan Normark wrote:
2 or 3 cars in a half day sounds reasonable as long as the beer drinking starts after the 2nd or 3rd car :D I have been in talks with Robert Plank about aligning and corner balancing the Miata. I know he wants to do his Porsche too. Are these the scales that are owned by a group of individuals in the club?


They are my scales - bought them about 15yrs ago. They are not fancy, not digital, the software is an excel spreadsheet I made with all the formulas - nothing special, but I've found them to be quite adequate.

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09 Bullitt - DD
11 Fusion - Wife's DD
03 Mazda6 - Track car
00 PSD Excursion - Tow rig
67 Firebird - Don't you still own your 1st car?
61 F100 - Dad's truck
90 Moto Guzzi Calif III - Tourer
00 Cagiva - Adventure bike
00 DRZ400 - Woods bike


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